Talk:List of Dragon Ball special abilities

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I have added a number of kanji to various techniques, as well as corrected incorrect ones and fixed meanings. Techniques whose kanji I could not directly source from the manga, I did not add (and hope someone else will at a later date). --Julian Grybowski 03:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] GT Techniques?

Should DBGT techs be added here? On one hand, it may cause the page's size to increase significantly, but I do believe it would be a handy bit of information. Just a thought. Lordshmeckie 04:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bakurikimaha

I have added a section for this attack and a screenshot, but several fields still need to be filled out- is there anyone who has experience with this type of editing?

[edit] Rogafufuken

what would be a better picture, Yamcha actualy using it, or a picture of the wolf?

The Wolf.

[edit] Ken

As I understand it, the 'ken' in attack names is only a figure of speech, and doesn't literally have the meaning of fist, and is thus more properly translated as "technique/move". Do you think Rugrats gets translated in Nihongo as 'carpet rodents'?

I was given to understand that most people understand it's not a literal "fist". Especially when the word "fist" is attached to things like giant energy blasts and such. But I think you may be right that it may be a little too open to interpretation. Maybe "Fist/Technique/Attack"?

- Might i say that translations are translations...not blatant interpretations...in most cases.

[edit] Chobakuretsumaha

Question about the listing for the Chobakuretsumaha- where is that name listed? As I recall of that attack (and the picture used next to the listing supports this as the one he used on Stage 1 Cell), the one time he used the attack he didn't call out an attack name. Our only indication was tfrom part of the first episode title of the 1st part of the segment that lead to Cell attaining his second stage- The Gekiretsukodan that Split the Heavens!! Onikage725 18:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe the attack name comes from the Daizenshuu guide. Beowulph 17:20, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
The translation has been commonly misinterpreted between the two. However, the only times the attack described is named are in the videogames (as "Gekiretsukodan" and in the episode title close to when the technique was actually used. I also went and re-watched his fight with Goku in the Ma Junior Saga, and he says "Chobakuretsumaha" before unleashing his area attack. It is not the same technique at all...Onikage725 18:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I'll make the changes then. But first I would like to point out that DBZ is a gay faggy show and no one should watch it.Beowulph 20:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
That wasn't called for... anyway. To confirm, in Japanese games the name Gekiretsukodan is used (for example, in the Japanese version of Budokai Tenkaichi 2

[edit] Destructo Disk

Was what Vegeta used to cut Gohan's tail realy a destructo disk? It didn't have the same appearance or even any of the similar sound effects. It was just a disk shaped ki blast...

Vegeta and Goku have both used Kienzan-like attacks before, but they are NOT "the" Kienzan used by Krillin. They are just energy disks. The Kienzan is flat with a rotating edge of "sharp" Ki. The move used by Vegeta against Gohan, and the move used by Goku against Super Buu, were both just roughly disk-shaped Ki blasts. Similarly, Freeza's "Death Disk" (Tsuibi Kienzan) was not a "red Kienzan" but an entirely different technique, with a homing element added to it. It was this, and not Krillin's Kienzan that Cell used when fighting Goku. Krillin even says at first, something like, "Hey! Is that my Destruco Disk he's using!?" and then someone points out that it's the same attack Freeza used on Namek, against SSJ Goku. So, this means that the ONLY individual to use the "true" Kienzan was Krillin. The others were either imitations, or different techniques entirely.

Daishokaioshin 23:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone has edited saying Goku and Vegeta used the Kienzan technique even though they were just energy discs.

[edit] Sources for kanji names

Just making this section if anyone finds any useful sources:

[edit] Galick Gun

"There is considerable debate about the correct transliteration of the move's name, with some fans thinking it is Garlic Gun or Gallic Gun, etc."

Just thought I'd throw out here that Galick is pretty much a FUNi word (replacing the old Saban-term "Gallet"). Garikku (or more accurately ga-rikku) literally translates to "garlic". That also keeps in line with the general Saiya-jin/Vegetable pun. I'm also fairly certain that "Galick" isn't a word...in either language :p

Try saying "Galick" out-loud. "Gah-lik" is how it's pronounced. Being half Japanese myself, I know from experience that it can be difficult for some Japanese to pronounce English words if they aren't familiar with them. "Gah-lik" or "Gah-rik" is how someone who is Japanese and not fluent in English might pronounce "Garlic". This fact is kind of lost on American audiences due to the mispronunciation of "Galick" as "Gaa-lik" instead of "Gah-lik" by Vegeta's voice actor. The point remains, however, that Galick, much like "Freeza/Frieza" being the Japanese way of saying "Freezer" and "Coola" being the way of saying "Cooler", is correct.

No one debates the accuracy of the name "Freeza", so why pick on "Galick"? I'm not criticizing you for bringing this subject up, just trying to show the reasoning behind using the name "Galick" is not just a "FUNi word". It is an attempt at translating Japanese phonetics.

Daishokaioshin 07:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I obviously do not speak Japanese, but I thought that the equivolent of our "er" is "aa," not just an "a." Freeza the romanization of Furiza, and it's meant as a pun on the word freezer, not the word itself (as far as I've always thought). Likewise it is Koola/Coola, and the dub uses Cooler. This was actually mentioned in Koola's article (I use the K rather than the C out of familiarity but I know it doesn't really matter). Like his brother and father, Coola's name is a pun on all things relating to the cold. As both Coola's and Freeza's names end in a short "a" vowel (rather than the long "ā" which usually signifies "er" in kana spellings on English words), Freeza's name is typically spelled with an "a" at the end (as opposed to "Freezer"). Logic would follow that Coola's name should in turn be spelled in a similar fashion (as opposed to "Cooler"). Note that FUNimation Entertainment, the company responsible for DragonBall's production and distribution in North America and Australia, chooses to spell the name as Cooler (and Freeza as Frieza) despite this logic.

As for Gallic, I'll concede that due to the pointlessness of debating the usage of an l as opposed to an r, and for my own confusion of transliteration and transcription. Onikage725 20:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested mergers

While Fusion is probably far too long (it should probably be more detailed than what it is anyway) I believe Shunkan Ido and possibly Kamehameha (Dragon Ball) need to be merged into the base of this article and not kept unto themselves. Does anyone agree/object? Voice of Treason 03:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've got no problem with Shunkanido being moved here. The Kamehameha one I'm on the fence about. Beowulph 23:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 10x Kamehameha?

It's not a video game only move, SS4 Goku even says Tenfold Kamehameha or something along those lines when using it in GT

SSJ4 Gogeta says "Not even you can survive the power of the Kamehameha times ten" (Juubei Kamehameha in the Japanese version) while fighting Ii Shenron. He makes 9 illusions of himself, and pretends that they're all going to shoot kamehamehas. Instead, they all shoot those little party favor things with confetti and such. It was a joke. The name is never used by Goku for any REAL move. The name 10x Kamehameha comes from the videogames only.

Daishokaioshin 23:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Just watched the relevent episodes, and the Jubei Kamehameha is Goku's SSJ4 Kamehameha basically. The announcer said (Japanese version mind you) that Goku had tried to finish off Yi Xing Long with the "Kamehameha x 10," and the actual words used were "Jubei Kamehameha." Also, Gogeta produces 4 clones for a total of 5 for the confetti gag. Onikage725 20:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute; didn't Goku call out the x10 Kamaehamaeha's name during the fight with Golden Oozaru Vegeta-Baby? I'm positive he did. It didn't hurt baby initially, but its after-effect stopped him from doing his attack. Anonymous 02:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Goku did use this attack against Bebi, so, no, it's got game only. Lordshmeckie 04:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Centering smaller pic sizes

While I like the usual format, I believe keeping the original image and centering is better than blowing up the picture past its alloted pixel size when no bigger one is better. It looks much tidier that way. Agree? Papacha 01:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga vs. anime and movies

I don't think we should list non-manga users of moves in the main box, as that sometimes leads to contradictions. I think that we should list the non-canon instances seperately in the description instead. Beowulph 13:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I recommend that we start tagging non-cannon users in the boxes with an asterix. Beowulph 15:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shunkan Idō equals Warp speeds?

Is the Shunkan Idō (teleport) the equal of Warp Speed in the DB universe?

No, it's "Instaneous Movement" i.e teleportation. Warp Speed is fast, but as Jonathan Livingston Seagull teaches us, "perfect speed is being there." Onikage725 20:37, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chi/Ki

What exactly is the difference? I'd always been under the impression that they were the same basic concept, just with two different cultural spins. Also, beyond that actual terms, it seems from my viewing that in the Dragon Ball universe they use the term ki, or chi in the Viz translation (as opposed differentiating between both for individual uses). Onikage725 14:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Chi is the energy present in all things. It comes in different types and different polarities. Ki is present in living things only, and OCCASIONALLY the environment, under special circumstances, and is of only one type, without necessarily having any polarity.
There is Earth Chi, Magnetic Chi, and Heaven Chi. There are the polarities of Positive and Negative. Chi is a Chinese concept, Ki is Japanese. They're similar but different. Chi is more of a cosmic force, while Ki is spiritual energy.
Daishokaioshin 05:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say this but there is a difference between ki and chi. Chi is vital life force that keeps one alive, fuels body function, and allows one to have ki. The ki is mind energy caused by the mind of the user and is controled by it. This comes from the Japanese characters used to show it in the manga. 気 means "ki" or energy while 血 or "chi" is more connected to the life force concept.

[edit] Thunder Flash

How come Thunder Flash isn't listed? Pikuhan gets no recignition? :( KojiDude 13:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thunderflash, and Pikuhan in general existed only in the anime/filler. See "Canon" discussion -Tiak 22:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kousengan

When did Nappa fire beams from his eyes? Beowulph 11:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

When he went after Earth's military forces while waiting for Goku to show up.
Daishokaioshin 01:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jibaku Users

Goku was about to use this move in GT but Vegeta stopped him. Even though GT is non-canon I think this should be recognized.

Can you provide a reference as to when? Beowulph 16:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
He's right. I have to get back to you about ep number, but it's right before Vegeta showed up when he was losing to Shenron. Shortly before they fused into Gogeta. He decides to self destruct, then Vegeta shows up and berates him before going SSJ4. Onikage725

I'm the same one who did the first post. The episode was entitled Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta the number is 59 in the dub.

Ah, then that would be Friend? Foe? Were-monkey Vegeta on the Rampage! in the original.

[edit] Bakuhatsuha used by Freeza?

When he does the swift motion to cause the massive explosion after transforming into his second state on Namek, Freeza says, basically, "Even a Saiyan can do this much...". Voice of Treason 01:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canon

Where was it decided that attacks used in filler are not canon? Those episodes are generally accepted as canon, so why are the attacks not accepted as canon? TJ Spyke 06:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Because they weren't used in the manga. If it isn't in the manga it's non-canon, which goes for everything in DB.--KojiDude 06:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not getting into this with you again, I know what you think. I want to know where was it decided here that the filler isn't canon? I checked the log and someone just added it a few days ago, no discussion here. TJ Spyke 06:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Somone didn't "add it a few days ago" the Non-canon Usage has been there for a while. And scince no one has removed it for weeks, it means that they all agree that GT, Movies, and filler are non-canon.--KojiDude 06:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
If this is a problem, then, pending the result of the AFD at DB Cannon, I think an acceptable alternative would be to call it Non-manga usage. Beowulph 11:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree even if an attack is not cannon it should be at least mentioned. DBZROCKS
As an added note... the canon issue in DBZ is a slippery slope. Walk along that path and you'll get whole scores of episodes cut out of each saga, entire fights being boiled down (although that's not necessarily a bad thing), and some favorite moments (Feeding Frenzy coming to mind in my case) being cut. Walk long enough and you'll reach GT, and then that becomes a whole other canon issue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.87.107 (talk) 21:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Genki Dama and Cell

I think what I've got on there right now is a pretty good solution. Cell is listed as "possibly" able to use it; the being good thing used to apply to Super Saiyan as well, but Vegeta disproved it. We also clarify that he never used it in the manga, only in the video games. Beowulph 11:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

That's speculation to say he can "possibly" use it, though. Cell doesn't use it, and can't use it. No one EVER said that you had to be pure good to turn SSJ. That is completely a fan-based theory. The Genki Dama, on the other hand, has been proven to be useable only by those who are of good alignment, since anyone who is evil who touches gets the crap blasted out of them. Cell made the claim he could use it, but there's no evidence that he was telling the truth. It may have been the truth as he understood it, but not the REAL truth. He had Goku's DNA and (disregarding the fact that knowledge of techniques isn't stored in DNA in the first place) thus may have known HOW to use the Spirit Bomb, and BELIEVED he could use it, but that does not in any way imply he COULD use it if he tried. Knowing how to do something and doing it are two different things. Cell may have known how to use the Spirit Bomb but have been unable, just as Krillin and Gohan had no idea how to use it, but were able to attack with it anyway once Goku did the work for them. All of that positive energy and life force would not have responded to Cell calling for it to come to him. I think that King Kai/North Kaio, after how long he has lived, would know the limits of the Spirit Bomb and his stating that the Genki Dama requires one to be a good person automatically excludes Cell from the list of those who could make use of it.
Also, as I have pointed out repeatedly, he never uses it at all in either the manga or the anime. And regardless of what has been decided about "not deciding Dragon Ball canon" videogames never have been, are not, and never will be an official part of Dragon Ball continuity, especially not ones like the Budokai series that take numerous liberties with the story, providing alternate versions of events, and so on.
Saying that just because we're "not allowed to decide Dragon Ball canon" means that the "The Plan To Conquer Earth" storyline in Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi is canon, or that the movies which do not fit at all into either the manga or the anime are canon, is utterly absurd. The results of the discussion do not mean "everything is canon". They mean that we cannot state what is canon in articles on Wikipedia. And guess what? That includes stating that video games and movies and GT and filler episodes of the anime that contradict the manga are canon! So saying that we have to include Cell in the list of users of Genki Dama because he uses it in a video game is an endorsement of its canonicity. This is not a "List of Dragon Ball Videogame special abilities", and while brief mention of things being done in videogames is acceptable, listing an individual as a confirmed user in the anime or manga when they never made use of a technique is misinformation.
And Kojidude, it was Tsuibi Kienzan that Cell used, not Kienzan. Luckily it was already fixed by Beowulph, but in the future, make sure that your changes are accurate before making them, please.
Daishokaioshin 19:32, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, in the manga (Volume 29, chapter 6) Kuririn states that it's also impossible for Vegeta to turn into Super Saiyan because one needs a pure heart.
The thing is, we don't know exactly what the limitations of the Genki Dama are; maybe only good people can learn it and Cell was able to bypass that by getting the knowledge directly (it would seem that in Dragon Ball, having the DNA does actually allow access to the techniques). There's no way to say for certain if he can or can't, but Toriyama seemed content have Cell at least believe he could.
Additionally, while I can locate Goku stating that Gohan won't be affected because he isn't evil, I haven't found anything that says one needs to be good to summon the Genki Dama. Can you tell me where this was mentioned? Beowulph 01:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Kuririn is hardly an authority on SSJ. Him stating such things shouldn't be taken seriously. He was DEAD when Goku first transformed after all. As for the being good thing, it's common sense. The user of the Genki Dama is ASKING for everything to SHARE their energy. If one is evil, one is as likely to get the energy being requested as one is to discover the secret of immortality by smoking cigarettes. It isn't going to happen. And I know that in DBZ techniques are stored in DNA, which is why I said "disregarding the fact" because it doesn't apply to DBZ. Also that rant about canonicity towards the end wasn't directed at you, but rather at those people who made certain comments in their edits to the article. Just so you know I wasn't upset with you or pulling that out of nowhere or anything. :)
Daishokaioshin 07:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
While I agree that it at first sounds like common sense, we don't know that it relies on asking for energy, especially since it can come from non-sentient sources such as a star. Is it not possible that once could just take it instead? Beowulph 11:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Guys, hold up a minute. Cell does use it in the video games, and states that he can use it. If he uses it in the ideo games, then all we have to do is put his name down with a asterisk next to it, and there's no problem. It's really not a big deal on wether we think he can use it or not, it's the fact that he did use it that matters.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 16:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Except that he DOESN'T use it. Videogames are not part of the Dragon Ball continuity. They are not credible sources of information. Nothing in a videogame, in whole, or in part, is to be taken as reliable when it comes to determining FACTUAL information about the usage of techniques in the MANGA and ANIME. If you want to go make an article devoted to all the different techniques that appear in videogames, you're free to do that. But this is article is not about videogames. It is about the actual series, and not merchanise based off of it. Next you'll want us to be saying that Majin Buu canonically absorbed Vegeta just because he does it in a videogame.
Beowulph, that's speculation about just taking the energy, and who's to say that sentience is a requirement for sharing energy? Goku drew upon energy from people and places repeatedly without their being aware he was doing so. Yes, it is possible to draw energy from the environment, such as Piccolo does with his Makankosappo. But it isn't LIFE energy, like what is gathered for the Spirit Bomb. Cell would most definitely have the ability to gather energy from his surroundings, but asking for the very life essence of a planet is something else entirely. (Also, can you point out when Goku EVER drew energy for the Genki Dama from a star? I don't recall that happening.)
However, there's no point in discussing this further. As long as we state ONLY that Cell CLAIMED he could use it, but do NOT list him as an actual user, there should be no problem. If people want to include him as a "non-manga user" just because of a videogame, then as utterly idiotic as I believe that to be, I won't complain about it further. Also, let us leave out speculation about Cell being able to use the technique just because he said he could. Including such speculation would be akin to including the fan-theories that Cell could turn into a Super Saiyajin just because he had Saiyajin cells in him.
Daishokaioshin 22:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Quoting North Kaio (DB 18 Chapter 8):

Remember that the 'Spirit Ball' is a martial-arts discipline that allows you to borrow energy from grass and trees, from people and animals, from inanimate objects and the atmosphere... and then concentrate them and release them.

If you can draw so much destructive power from a ball made on this small planet...

...Imagine what you can do with a spirit ball formed on Earth! If you can also learn to tap into the astounding powers of the Sun...

Well, just be careful, or you may destroy the very planet you are trying to protect!

The Genki Dama does not, according to the only person who teaches it, require it to be taken from only from living beings. Beowulph 00:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks.
Daishokaioshin 19:15, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
First off, simply deciding that a certain character isn't an authority simply because they are a certain character isn't very accurate. None of the characters know anything for sure about the Super Saiyan state, only that it comes from large bursts of emotion, and that it can be surpassed. Why this is being connected to Genki Dama, i really don't know. There's no reason to connect Saiyan physiology and the techniques of the King Kai (North Kaio, if you want to be precise, i guess). Cell states that he can do a Genki Dama, and while i wouldn't readily state that Cell blatantly didn't know about his own capabilities (he's very intelligent and aware of his own capablities, at least before his evolutions), i understand the arguments against it. Allow me, then, to state some ideas that are in the opposite light. One, knowing the technique would allow Cell to create a variation of it, where he takes energy, but doesn't need a pure heart. It's been done with other techniques on the show, i believe (though, admittedly, no-ones ever made variations off of the Kaios' techniques). In addition it could be possible that the whole Pure Heart thing doesn't apply to Cell, an artificial construct (i wouldn't know for sure, Toriyama never elaborated). The third, a slightly less in-universe idea, is that this is one of Toriyama's many cases of forgetting old details (which he has been known to do), and, like many of his others, could then be seen as fact within non-fact, as we, very much so, accept both the facts and the conflicting facts that came before it. I on my own take it as canon that Cell said he did it, and thus could possibly do it, or a variation of it, but am against him actually doing it in the video games (I am eternally miffed that the Budokai series (and in fact, many DBZ games since Legends and Final Bout) use the Genki Dama and Kamehameha as his main techniques, and completely ignore his other possibilities, such as the Perfect Barrier (which was in the Tenkaichi series, much to my joy). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.87.107 (talk) 21:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The romanizations

How many of the attacks on this page are reffered to as that in the English manga? For example, is it called Shunkan Idō or Instantaneous Movement/Transmision? If the romanizations aren't used in the manga, they should probably be changed. And I doubt the whole "use the most popular name" policy would work seeing as those are rarely used by anyone except for elitists, and people that mostly read/watch fan translations. Nemu 19:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually the "most popular name policy" is used more by FUNimation fanboys than "elitists" and people who are "obssessed" as you put it. If you love FUNimation so much, good for you, but we're trying to be ACCURATE here, not "use what name we like most". You think I like having to type out some enormous name for a technique which I can't remember half the time? Wikipedia isn't about making things how we want them, despite what you seem to believe, and assuming that people are using the original names for techniques or anything else for any reason other than because it is the right thing to do is a disservice to other contributors. Please reconsider the way you refer to people who are doing their best to be true to the series and to Wikipedia, in the future.
As a note: None of that was intended as a personal attack, but as an expression of my concern for the way you are referring to people, which could be construed as a personal attack itself.
Daishokaioshin 01:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm talking about using the English manga (which apparently became the standard for character names), not the anime. And we probably should be using what people use the most as this is an encyclopedia, not a source for people experienced in the matter. The original "use the most popular name" comment was towards anyone that thought these names were used more often. Even if the attacks don't have official English names, the most literal translation should be used. Nemu 01:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
And yes, I was a little hasty to comment Voice of Treason's edit without thinking, but my above comment is correct. People are either stubborn or are using the terms they are most familiar with. Nemu 01:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to clarify, if these names are actually used in the manga, they should stay, but if it uses translated versions, it should change. Nemu 01:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the manga uses these names, when names are given. For some of them, there are no names, and those names are either taken from the Daizenshuu, when available. Most others are not so much translated as are fan names like "Death Ball" and "Freeza Beam" which are never used ANYWHERE except in videogames and the like (ie. not even used in the FUNimation dub of the anime).
Daishokaioshin 15:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't consider the videogame versions "fan names". The games were officially licensed, thus they are at least marginally official.--Marhawkman 06:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The names that are more common are the Japanese ones, even though they are actually used in the anime and manga. The only reason they should be under question at all is if the person doing it used an alternative romaji (i.e. si for shi) for the attack names. The important thing is that they are universally agreed upon by the fans.

Bardock the Mexican 01:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving moves to the character pages

Though I didn't vote on the recent AfD, it brought up some very good points. I think we should consider beginning a migration of the special abilities.

I've created a template at Template:Animanga ability which is a start. Ideally, I suppose it should resemble a table row since most characters have many moves that we'll want to stack as compactly as possible. Beowulph 00:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who thinks that Tsuibi Kienzan should be separate?

I really think the technique is different than the normal kienzan and should be made separately. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but Kienzan cannot be controlled by its' user. Tsuibi Kiezan, therefore, can. So, can I make it separate or just apart from Kienzan? Dragonball1986 03:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a variant... That'd be like giving Chou Kamehameha it's own entry. Besides it's not the only variant. Granted all the others where used by Krillin, but that makes for a total of three variants. The basic Kienzan is shown as about 2-3 feet in diameter. A giant version was used against Nappa, this one was about 6-8 feet. Then there's Krillin's multiple Kienzan. That one was actually similar to the Tsuibi variant in that the disks changed direction mid-flight. Thus we're left with the final variant, Tsuibi Kienzan. Sure it's a different color, but that's not really important. Thus I think it's best as is.--Marhawkman 05:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The Tsuibi Kienzan (tracking energy disk) is indeed a type of Kienzan (energy disk). They're created in basically the same way as well. Going on with Marhawkman's variations, there are also Kienzan's which do not have the little razor-blades on their edge (several of Kuririn's as well as Goku, Vegeta and 18's). Keep in mind that Goku also has a version of the Kamehameha (Magaru Kamehameha) which he can control after it's been fired, does that deserve a seperate entry? Beowulph 11:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bakuhatsu-ha in Piccolo Daimaō Story Arc

The first time we see a kind of bakuhatsu-ha is in the fight between Kamisama (Shen) and Piccolo (Ma Jr.) This is relavent because around the DBZ timeline we see Nappa performing a stronger version of it. That is possibly where Toriyama got his idea from. He would have used previous powers and reused them in his own anime and manga.

Feel free to add it...--Marhawkman 04:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like you're saying Toriyama didn't make Dragonball...only Dragonball Z, which is, of course, false. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.23.243.16 (talk) 22:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Hey...What about this!

I have two ideas. Shouldn't we either make an article fot EACH attack, or someone write it over, cause I read another attack guide, and this IS NOT all.

 > Gokufistum (November 7, 2006)
If you feel something is missing that needs to be added, you may add it. I don't have time to do a complete rewrite.--Marhawkman 17:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] zanzoken

Didn't Yamcha use that before Dragon ball Z started?--Marhawkman 11:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

He used it in Dragonball, thus the reason that it is in the list of Dragon Ball special abilities.

[edit] Naruto? WTF?

Okay, why are we renaming Dragon Ball Z techniques after Naruto techniques? Isn't Shishin No Ken the correct name for the technique used by Tenshinhan in which he splits into four bodies? "Bunshin no Jutsu" came about when Naruto did. I don't recall it ever being used in Dragon Ball Z. I could be wrong, but I'd prefer someone provide a source so I can determine whether to rename it to the accepted and (as far as I know) actual name, or leave it as is.

Daishokaioshin 08:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English names

I'm taking the English names out of the headings. We have them in the infobox and several moves have multiple names in English. Beowulph 22:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big Bang attack image incorrect

The image shown next to the "Big Bang Attack" section is incorrect; the attack shown in that image was a simple ki blast, not his signature attack. Perhaps an image of either the Android #19 Big Bang attack, or the Return of Cooler movie Big Bang attack should be substituted for the incorrectly labeled image. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.66.154.143 (talk) 08:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, that was actually Vegeta's "Atomic Blast Attack" but, still... everything's screwed up here; the titles of the techniques listed, etc., and I shall explain further below. Power level (Dragon Ball) 05:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Purple Comet Crash and the names of all the other techniques

Okay: First off, I have to admit it since I've been holding it back for a long time; this special abilities list is WAY, WAY too messed up! Shouldn't we be going by common names, yet still use English names for the attacks to sound more clearer and specified? For example, I don't know what to title the Purple Comet Crash section anymore. Should it be named by an English title or romaji title? Why are there names like "Hells Flash" and "Big Bang Attack" while everything else is mostly in a romanized title (like "Kienzan" for example?) I'm gonna have to say this: either we make the titles of these techniques English (except for Kamehameha, Kaio Ken, etc. which were actually used in the English anime and manga dubs/translations) OR we can remove the hepburn/babylon (whatever) romanization letters (e.g., Mafūba → Mafuba, Kaiō Ken → Kaio ken, and a hell of a lot more...)

So, any thoughts or suggestions about this? This really, really could use some specifications to avoid another possible Articles for deletion/{PAGENAME}.
What do you think guys? Power level (Dragon Ball) 05:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I have been wondering about that too, we should either have it ALL in romaji or ALL in english manga/anime names. DBZROCKS 23:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, this is quite a toughy. Should they be in English language titles or in romanization titles? I seriously don't know what do... ... ... anyone else care to shed light on this? Power level (Dragon Ball) 03:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


The problem here seems to be (as far as I can tell) whether to use translated names (like "fist of the lord of worlds") or simply use romanizations (like "kaioken").

Like the names of the characters, we should be using the official romanizations of the names, if possible. If not, we should use the English dubbed names, so long as they're not terribly different (like "Special Beam Cannon").

There seems to be a secondary question: how do we spell these romanizations? WP:Anime and WP:MOS-JP tells us we should use "official" spellings if availible- if not, we should use a slightly modified Hepburn romanization system.


The easy, and practical, answer here is to use Daimao's subtitles. However he spells the romanizations and however he translates the names. This will probably mean few, if any, macrons. The transliterations are still spelled 'correctly', just differently than the standard used here.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about "Hell's Flash" and "Big Bang Attack", and other such attacks. The reasons they're in English, and not simply romanized Japanese, is because, uh, they're already in English. 16 says "Hell's Flash", in English ("heruzu furasshu"). Vegeta says "Big Bang Attack", in English ("biggu ban atakku"). Many attacks are simply English to begin with.

-- User:DesireCampbell 140.184.92.161 18:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Very well then. My final decision, I say we reduce the techniques down to their Japanese names and just use the literal translations for all of them. Though I'm still very unsure about how Kamehameha, Dodonpa (or should it be titled "Dodon Ray"?), Genki Dama and Kaio ken should be listed. Any thoughts? I'm highly considering a drastic change here people, and that is, to make every single Dragon Ball technique translated into the English language. Now before I make such a change, however, I shall wait for about a week before it happens. Right now, I'll have to get everyone who's anyone that is a true Dragon Ball fan's opinion on this to solve this case once and for all. Power level (Dragon Ball) 02:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Be right back. I gotta eat before getting enough strength to contact all Dragon Ball fans. Power level (Dragon Ball) 02:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
WTF happened to going by manga names? Genki Dama and Kamehameha should stay the same in my opinion. Your plan doesn't sound very great to me either--SUIT-n-tie 05:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Listen, I'll translate everything to their literal English terms with the exception of Kamehameha and Kaio Ken. I'll leave Genki Dama the way it is because that's what VIZ used in the DBZ manga. Now as for Dodonpa, I'll leave that the way it is also only because that's how it was greatly introduced in the VIZ Dragon Ball manga. Everything else, we'll just use literal translations. Here's an example of what I'm envisioning:
I strongly doubt you should just straight up translate everything, it probably would cause an uproar.
I noticed, as you cited Hells Flash and Big Bang Attack, that many of the names of attacks in Japanese, in some cases, are made to sound like the English versions, thus, using the romanizations, while preferrable in most cases, is sort of redundant in those. Attacks I'm talking about include the Big Bang Attack and Final Flash. I believe, though, that Hell's Flash has a different name. The other reason could simply be that someone added it a while ago, using the English name simply because they didn't know the Japanese but felt that the attack needed to be there anyway, and it is still in English because nobody wants to change it, or at least people want to but don't, for their own reasons.

[edit] Garlic Gun

Kanji / Kana ギャリック砲
Romaji Gyarikku Hou
Translated Garlic Gun
English anime Galick Gun, Gallet Gun, Gallic Gun
English manga Not Named
English Videogame(s) {{{AmerVG}}}
Creator Vegeta
Other Users
DB abilities Listing - Category

One of Vegeta's signature moves. To utilize it, he curls his fingers and places both his hands together at chest level facing the same direction (so that the palm of one hand is on the back of the other) and then, once enough ki is gathered, he thrusts both hands forward to fire a powerful blast of energy. He uses this move against Goku in the Saiyan Saga, but Goku repels it with a kamehameha after a 4x Kaio-Ken.

There is considerable debate about the correct transliteration of the move's name, with some fans thinking it is Garlic Gun or Gallic Gun, etc. Garlic gun would fit in with the Saiyan convention of using vegetables for names.

Non-manga usage
Semi-perfect Cell used it against Vegeta, to no effect.

In Dragon Ball GT, Vegeta uses it again against Baby-possessed Gohan. After Vegeta gets possessed by Baby himself, he uses while in a Golden Oozaru state.

Not too much was changed. Basically, the title should be in a literal English translation of the Japanese romaji name. Any thoughts? Power level (Dragon Ball) 18:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
great job though the last sentence in the first paragraph would sound better if it was like this "this move was first used against Goku in thier first meeting durring the Saiyan Saga" DBZROCKS 23:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
That was only a sample of how it should be. Anyways, do you support what I'm tryin' to do here? Power level (Dragon Ball) 23:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Sure I think this way people who are looking for information on dragonball won't be confused by the Romanji Names.DBZROCKS 01:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Support: For sure. Much less confusion. Superior1 02:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Support: Per above. Not bad Power level. -- bulletproof 3:16 05:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Support - I'm satisfied--SUIT-n-tie 05:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Support - Good work Power Level, lol keep it up! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seong0980 (talk • contribs) 09:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC).
Support-Love the idea keep it up! DBZROCKS 13:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment-I'll just wait for 4 more days, and then I'll do the change. Power level (Dragon Ball) 14:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Support- it was nedded some of the more known attacks can keep the original name but most casual Dragon Ball fans scrath their heads and start wondering WTH is a certain attack when they read the names that they found on the attack lists as well as in the charater ability lists, it's a great dessision PL -Dark Dragon Flame 19:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment-three more days until I completely change this. I can hardly wait (not!) it's for the best anyways... Power level (Dragon Ball) 20:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Dissending: We can't have it listed a Gyarikku Hou... why exactly? I don't see the problem with keeping it the way it is, it's obviously more informative than the English versions (which everyone who is adamantly advocating for English versions obviously knows. I'd be very disappointed is rich, interesting names like Rogafufuken or Gekiretsukodan were suddenly changed with no way for me to find the original name.

Before we make any changes, could you post a list of which abilities you're going to be modifying, and what the old and new names are? Beowulph 00:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you read my comments above? Please post your opinions below specifically about what else should be changed/added. Cheers! Power level (Dragon Ball) 04:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Let's just say, two more days... Power level (Dragon Ball) 16:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
One more day... Power level (Dragon Ball) 18:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Alrighty then! I shall finally get to work on fixing up and literally translating this list. This might take me the whole day though... I'll eat now and start on it as soon as I return. Power level (Dragon Ball) 16:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Finished!

Ok, you guys: pretty much everything is less confusing now, but there's still a lot of fixin' up to do. I got really, really bored of editing and fixin up this article so I'll let anyone else who feels like it here to do the rest. I'm gonna go somewhere else now. I might be back later... Power level (Dragon Ball) 21:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Definitely DO NOT like these edits. Moves that have no official translation should retain their Japanese names. The Frederick 07:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
To make things less confusing, I simply translated most of the manga/anime Dragon Ball moves into their literal English terms. Many Dragon Ball Wikipedian fans did support what I was gonna do. I lefted only the most popular techniques as their romanized name (e.g., Kamehameha, Kaio-Ken, Kikôhô, etc.) If you still disagree with it, please begin a new discussion about it below. Thanks! Power level (Dragon Ball) 15:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
IMO, the moves that have English anime names should use them, this IS the English Wikipedia after all. Moves without English names should retain Japanese names, IMO. —the preceding comment is by The Frederick (talk • contribs) The Frederick: Please sign your posts!.
Yeah, this is why I wanted the list of changes first. I don't like a lot of those names and prefer the Japanese originals. For example, why is Mafuba translated (they called it "Mafuba" in the English manga). Plus, it seems pretty odd that half are in Japanese and half are in English. I thought you were just going to be translating the ones that were supposed to be English to begin with (Final Flash, Garlic Gun, Burning Attack) etc.
I would vote to revert. Beowulph 12:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Listen up: Demon Seal Wave is popularly called Mafû-ba in volume 12 of the Dragon Ball manga translated by Viz. I'll change it to that only because there are several translations of Mafû-ba in the English language and it is used in the English manga. But, to make things less confusing, I changed several of the romaji names to a literal term so they could be easily understood by people who visit the English Wikipedia. As you can see, I left a few such as Kamehameha, Sôkidan, Genki Dama, Kikôhô, etc., as they were written in the manga since I thought translating them would be wierd and ambiguous and others agreed with me. I wasn't sure about the spelling of Kaio ken because I don't have the manga volumes that it was commonly written as. Besides, pretty much everyone supported the change I did. You two guys seem to disagree. If you want to, begin a new discussion about it or list the techniques below this comment that should also be written in their Dragon Ball manga romaji form. One more thing — manga names take a precedent for English anime names (e.g., Kuririn instead of Krillin, Tenshinhan instead of Tien Shinhan, Kiwi instead of Cui, etc.) since the manga came first before the anime and there is only one English version of it which was translated by VIZ. There are several English anime versions of Dragon Ball character names and their techniques all over the world that the only thing to do here is use official romanizations; the English spelling for transliterations from katakana, kanji, etc., and WP:anime#Sections says we should "use official romanizations if possible names". I don't see any reason why we should use anime names for the techniques since there are more than five dubbs made for English speakers around the world[2]. See what I mean? There is only one English Dragon Ball manga series and its translated by VIZ.

Any thoughts? Power level (Dragon Ball) 15:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the official Wikipedia policy. Since that's the case, it doesn't seem like much argument can be given. Beowulph 19:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I am to please and inform. Power level (Dragon Ball) 20:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


I feel I must remind everyone about the naming guidelines. All romanji spellings, and translation choices, should be lifted from the Funimation subtitles.

If the fear in using "Galic Gun" is that someone will not be able to find it - well, there's very little we can do about it. We can't cover every name in a list like this. We have to choose either "Garlic Gun" or "Galic gun" or "Gyarikku Hou", and that choice should be based on the availible accepted guidelines in WP:Anime and WP:NAME - which tells us to use Daimao's subtitles. --DesireCampbell 05:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Garlic Gun should be used here only because its an obvious reference of garlic. Power level (Dragon Ball) 05:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The attack's name is obviously derived from "Garlic", but that's not at issue here. What's at issue is whether to name the attacks in accordance to WP guidelines, or to decide, by ourselves, what the name is "supposed to" be.

I understand where you're coming from - but you're efforts are misguided. Every name (character, place, episode title, special techbique) all follow the same guideline: use official romanizations. That means using whatever Daimao decides is best. Whether that means a fully translated name, or an odd romanization - we must go with that, because it is both correct and widely popular. If some name has not been given an official romanization, then a standard romanization is to be used. --DesireCampbell 07:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Just want to chime in here and also say I hate the Power level (Dragon Ball) changes as well. Most irritating of all is that he removed a lot of the classic Dragon Ball "special abilities" that I put in on my edit. I thought the article was looking pretty good at that point. I also agree we should go with Daimao's names. Evan1975 19:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm not sure what you're trying to link to Evan, but let's look at it this way: the English Wikipedia has newcomers probably everyday, right? And the most popular anime in the world is most likely Dragon Ball Z, isn't it? By the time those newcomers come across the DB special abilities what will they expect: a confusing romanized list of techniques? Or a literal English list of techniques? Personally, I find the literal list to be much more effective and so less confusing. But I'm not the only one, surprisingly all of the users that I contacted agreed with me yet only two were unsure about it, and at the end, both didn't bother to argue about it anymore. All of a sudden, you and Takuthehedgehog seem to be bothered by it. Why not begin a whole new discussion about then rather than complain about my edits? DesireCampbell is suggesting to use some crazy old man's (apparently his name is "Daimao", suppposedly getting it from "Piccolo Daimao") subtitled techniques from the FUNimation Dragon Ball DVDs. I don't really disagree with that, as long as the attacks in the subtitles aren't as perplexing as this. Do ya get my drift? So either ya quit complainin' about what I did and go on with life... or... present a new idea below, ok? Power level (Dragon Ball) 00:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


Okay, PL, you've got to calm down. Deep breaths.

  1. Why would a literal English translation be less confusing? I can see the merit in using Dub names, but no casual fan would ever think to look for "Demonic Penetrating Light Death Cannon".
  2. Further, the WP:Anime guidelines (from which our project takes most of it's guidelines) specifically state we should be using official romanizations and translations if available, and only in the absence of
  3. That "crazy old man" is Steven J. Simmons. He was at the forefront of DragonBall fandom, creating his own summaries for DBZ episodes. Catching the eye of Funimation, he was hired on to translate DBZ. He now translates dozens of Funiumation properties, and is one of the most highly respected men in his field, both professionally and by fans. He continues to reach out to the community despite his heavy workload.

We don't need new ideas. The ones we've been using are fine. Follow the same naming guidelines we've been using. Use official romanizations if available. if not, use official translations of the Japanese name. If those aren't available, use the English dub name, if it's not terribly incorrect. In the case of none of the above giving a name, use a standard Hepburn romanization. --DesireCampbell 01:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think it should be dub names (i.e. Spirit Bomb, Special Beam Cannon), then Japanese names. If an attack doesn't have an English dub name, don't see the point in giving it an English name. The Frederick 06:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. Special Beam Cannon and Spirit Bomb are such English named techniques that are already listed inside the box where it says: Manga name: ???, Anime name: ????, Game name: ???, do you get it? Power level (Dragon Ball) 08:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


Absolutely not. The naming guidelines (which I've already given links to) clearly state that official romanizations are to be used over English dub names. If such romanizations are unavailible, then dubbed names are applicable (assuming they aren't terribly translated).

Beyond that, which of the dubs would you suggest? The Ocean dub? The original cut Funi dub? The new "uncut" Funi dub? The Malaysian dub? The UK "Big Green" dub? Or perhaps yet another dub licensed for broadcast by Funimation. There are far too many dubs to be able to asily pick one.

Further, there's no reason why a dub should be used at all. This article is about "Dragon Ball special abilities", not "Special Abilities in ##insert dub country here##'s English dub of Dragon Ball".

I have seen no valid argument for using anything other than the naming guidelines in WP:Anime, Which is what our project has been using as a base since its beginning. --DesireCampbell 14:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Desire, I posted a message on your talk page about how to resolve this matter. Please use that to settle this. Thanks! Power level (Dragon Ball) 05:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow...I'm still absorbing the list so I don't have much feedback on the changes. But I will weigh in saying I don't think anything should be changed to "official dub names" or whatever. For an attack list? Wow good luck. Using what sources? I mean, the Viz manga, FUNi dub track and FUNi subtitles are all official. So that gives us a 3 way fight over "Light of Death," "Special Beam Cannon," and "Makkankosappo." Hasn't FUNi taken to calling both the Bakurikimaha and the Masenko the "Masenkoha?" Let's not forget that the Kikoho is the Tri Beam, Blast Cannon, Ki Cannon, Chi Kung Blast... Onikage725 17:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


It's a balance between accuracy and popularity. Using the direct romanizations would be most accurate, using the most well known names would be popular. We use the official Japanese script translations as available on all English home release DVDs. This option is neither perfectly accurate, nor the absolutely most popular - but it's far more accurate than anything more popular, and far more popular than anything more accurate. --DesireCampbell 18:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

wow what an arguement :) anywho I think it would be best to use the romanizations unless the name is so blatently english like final flash or big bang attack or if the romanization is not commonly used like um light of death I highly doubt many people use that form of the attack, I personally prefer Specail beam cannon but thats just me. DBZROCKS 23:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death/Freeza Beam

In what products is this technique named other than the Budokai games? In Budokai 3 Greatest Hits Edition, when Freeza uses the attack, it sounds like he says "Desu Bimu". Is it really called the Freeza Beam in the Japanese version of anything? Takuthehedgehog 16:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

You got me. I wouldn't know where the name Furiza Bimu came from. Power level (Dragon Ball) 06:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
It isn't named in the series. It gets its name from the Daizenshuu attack list I believe. There are also a couple that get their names from other sources (Gekiretsukodan is implied in an ep title then used in video games, not spoken in the manga/anime; Burning Attack was coined in video games) Onikage725 17:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One impression on new edits

It....is a bit confusing. It took me way too long to find the entry on a certain attack of Piccolo's. I looked for Makkankosappo, no dice. I tried the ol' dub name, but no Beam Cannon. I went for the manga name, but no Light of Death. These straight translations for the techniques are going to throw people off. The same logic that doesn't have us listing the "Turtle Destructive Wave" should apply. Onikage725 18:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As I've said before: we should be using the same guidelines we use for every other name for this, for exactly the same reasons.

(note: this is the fourth time I've copy-pasted this) It's a balance between accuracy and popularity. Using the direct romanizations would be most accurate, using the most well known names would be popular. We use the official Japanese script translations as available on all English home release DVDs. This option is neither perfectly accurate, nor the absolutely most popular - but it's far more accurate than anything more popular, and far more popular than anything more accurate. --DesireCampbell 19:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Man, I vote for a revert. Apparently the big discussion/vote for this was under a section about using Garlic Gun, not as a seperate poll. The axiom "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" comes to mind. I also maintain that any argument that may come up to use dub attack names is impossible, as no master attack list exists in America. Some attacks go unnamed, others are made up (Raditz's generic ki attack has been both the Birdy and the Double Sunday, and I think in Budokai its the Saturday Crush). The strength of using romanizations of the Japanese attacks is that in Japan there was the manga, an anime based on said manga, sourcebooks gathering that data and video games using that data. Viz and FUNi do not collaborate, the various versions conflict, and the video game attacks are translated inanely at the seeming whims of whoever happens to be working on that game's localization. Look at a Budokai attack list. Cross reference it with a Tenkaichi attack list. Nab the US releases of GT Final Bout. Pop in Taiketsu. Then to top it off, load up Supersonic Warriors 2. Holy shit. Then think about how the Japanese versions of these games are running off of one single set of names. Onikage725 23:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


The reason we use the Funimation Japanese script translations is because they are more popular than the Viz translations. Disregarding the strange translation choices, and censorship issues with the Viz manga, the Funimation English translations are more widely available and far more common. Both are "official", so we use the most common of the two, as per WP:Anime and WP:COMMONNAME. --DesireCampbell 00:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying we should use otherwise. I'm talking about dub names. Example, from the new Vegeta Saga box set, "Makankosappo." From the so-called redub track "Special Beam Cannon." From the manga, "Light of Death." I say we should use the first one, but I think the first and third are a better fit than a straight translation. Noone's going to be looking for the "Demon Piercing Death Cannon" (or however one might translate it). Onikage725 01:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

My point was that we have guidelines in place already, and there are good reasons to use them. I was just reiterating the reasons. --DesireCampbell 10:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I reverted the article page back to the way it was by me. Onikage and/or DesireCampbell, PLEASE do not make such changes before establishing them here on the talk page. I had begun a discussion about translating everything from their Japanese romanized name to our English language, and guess what? the majority of the DBZ fans in the community agreed to my decision before I began performing th changes. If you don't like it, you either begin a new discussion about it NOW, or open up a quick survey about it. I'm sick and tired of having to revert the page back to my version with the reason already explained on the most recent consensus. Here's what you forced me to do: I'll try to ask for full protection on the main article. I hope this solves the problems... Power level (Dragon Ball) 06:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I have requested temporary full protection until all of us can establish new consensus right now: what the names that are gonna be listed on the list of special ablities. I need examples of names here people! I know that we have been deciding on going by Daimao's subtitled names from the DBZ FUNimation DVD's according to DesireCampbell, but I need to see examples you guys (just like when I did Garlic Gun above) Listen my fellow Wikipedians: Onikage, SUIT, AnimeDude360, Snapper2, 3bulletproof, VelocityEX, Muchi, Majin vegeta, VegettoEX, KojiDude, Recoome, DBZROCKS, Nemu, Dark Dragon Flame, Beowulph, and anyone else that I forget to mention: DO ANY OF YOU GUYS have examples of DBZ abilities that should be added on the article and titled from taking them off the Japanese Dragon Ball/Z audio with English subtitles? GIVE ME EXAMPLES at the bottom of this comment of mine. Good night, I'm going to sleep. I hope the page gets protected to end the craziness by the time I wake up tommorrow. I hope that someone here also has examples, not "ideas" since we know what we should go by, and that is Daimao's technique names, right? Power level (Dragon Ball) 07:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Power Level, please try to assume good faith here. The version I reverted from was a mess. Someone had messed it all up, and I had trouble sorting it out (I also made a few additional edits to content). Likewise, this consensus you speak of was under a header of "Garlic Gun" and has support for using the term "Garlic Gun" and some general comments of "keep it up" or "good work." That is hardly a binding consensus of everyone's view on a massive change on the article. For one thing, a discussion under the header with sepecifically which attacks are going to be changed to what would be more appropriate. Likewise, some semblence of familiairity should be maintained. FUNimation dub is inconsistent on attacks, and the Viz manga has some iffy translation and doesn't cover non-manga attacks, but the official subs do use the accurate romanizations. I maintain noone is going be looking for what the "Demonic Penetrating Light Death Cannon." Likewise, since many of the characters in many of the attacks have multiple meanings, these unnofficial translations are original research. Who's to say the "Sky Dance Technique" isn't better called the "Dancing Air Skill?" And since 2 official translations use "Bukujutsu" and the dub simply uses the term "flight," I don't see how the current (and entirely unused in any official English release) title is less confusing for anyone. If the aim is to make it less confusing, then using fan translations not used in any release is counter-productive. I'm going to revert it (but keep the newer opening paragraph, I forgot to include that yesterday), and if you want to please please open up a proper discussion or poll on the matter. Also might want to get input from more editors who don't necessarily check this particular article regularly (maybe dropping a note on the wikiproject, for instance). Onikage725 18:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Because of my recent protection request, the article has been fully protected. Also, about "Garlic Gun", I didn't say it was gonna be the only one which was gonna be changed. Actually, I said that all of them would be changed to their literal English term. See, what I did was leave a few which I thought were okay being romanized (Kamehameha, Dodonpa, Kikôhô, etc.). Now then, as I pointed out earlier: who here has like all of the DB/DBZ Funimation DVDs so that we could renamed the entire list to what old man Daimao (Steve Simmons) did in the Japanese audio w/ English subtitles? Power level (Dragon Ball) 20:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Steve Simmons uses the romanizations, which themselves are easy enough to find (I believe Greg Werner used to have the whole list out of the Daizenshuu on his site, and those are the same names). If it is a matter of simply double-checking to make sure Steve doesn't differ, I personally don't have all of them yet. I have the newly released S1 set, and in May I'm going to pick up the S2 set coming out. I have a few of the old Freeza and Cell DVDs too. Onikage725 20:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


Here's the thing: Power Level is asking for a complete list of every attack, as romanized or translated by Steve Simmons (that is, the official Funimation Japanese script translations). The problem? There's 260 of them.

How about this? We revert back to what it was before all this, and if anyone finds a name that's not one of Daimao's, we change it then? --DesireCampbell 21:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Revert what? The article's been protected Desire until we solve this down pat. Look, here's an idea: how we get the manga names for the techniques first? Don't the techniques have to be romanized with the ô instead of the standard o? As far as I remember, the FUNimation DVD's don't have that hepburn crap. Still, I feel it may be acceptable to go by the DVDs. Arhh!! I don't know anymore... ... LET'S JUST GET THE DAMN EXAMPLES HERE FIRST! Power level (Dragon Ball) 21:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, I didn't mean to list all 263 examples here. As I've said earlier, let's get some of them listed here on this talk page and work on what we have! Power level (Dragon Ball) 21:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


PL, let's take this from the beginning: I don't know what state the article is in - I don't know who's on what side, or how many sides there are - I'm simply hearing some questions about how the techniques should be named.

Romanization doesn't mean we have to use accents and such - romanization is taking a foreign word and spelling it in Latin characters. Different romanization methods use different foreign-Latin equivalents. For example: 少女 is a Japanese term meaning "young girl". It can be romanizaed as shōjo or shoujo or shojo. All these spellings are "correct", they are just either more or less accurate than one another.

The WP:Anime guidelines say we should use official romanizations over anything else. The reasons for this are clear: the article is about an anime, a piece of fiction that is not originally in English. The article should be about the original work not any adaptation of it, ie: an English dub. Thus, we use romanizations over dubbed names because it's more accurate. We use official romanizations because of WP:COMMONNAME. Official romanizations should be more widely known than any other romanization of the name. We use this official spelling even if it's an "odd" or less accurate romanization, ie: we use "Goku" over "Gokū".

"But" you say, "which official romanizations do we use? The dub? The Japanse subtitles? The manga?" Here we have to weigh popularity. I'd like to say that we have to weigh accuracy too, but we really aren't required to by the guidelines. Which would we pick? First, we cut the manga. It's not nearly as popular as the anime is - that's the first divide: anime and manga. Next, have to weed out the TV dubs - there are nearly a dozen of them and none are shown frequently anywhere. All we have left are what's readily available to most English speaking fans: the DVD releases. All these releases have both the original Japanese track as well as the newest Texas-cast dub by Funimation.

Now, I've used the term "popular" here, but the correct term is "common", and the distinction only arises now: "popular" denotes, well, popularity; while "common" denotes availability. The "redub" dub is more "popular", but the Japanese version is more "common" as it's not just available to English speaking fans, but the entire world.

To look at that another way: every English dub DVD includes the Japanese version, while not every Japanese DVD also has the English dub.


There are other reasons why we use Daimao's translations too: accuracy (Daimao's more accurate than any English dub), the fact that it's not censored in any way (as opposed to the TV dubs, and the manga), the incredible weight of support by fans behind him and his work. But these are all just 'extra's - the choice was clear with all that.


To conclude: Everyone agrees on using Daimao's spellings for every other name, why should the technique names be any different? --DesireCampbell 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Note: Desire, if your last post makes any of this redundant or irrelevant, sorry. I'm copy/pasting since it wouldn't let me paste due to your post going through first.

It actually is mostly Japanese names right now (I guess the protection kicked in after my revert) but it still needs attention. I mean, I vote for romanizations, but Paapuru kometto kurasshu over Purple Comet Crash isn't remotely necessary :p

Now my reason for agreeing with this general format is because of the weakness of the others. Literal translations are not in play on character articles, many of which link back to this page for expanded entries on attacks. Noone is familiar with them (unless they know Japanese of course). Manga translations are a flawed concept in that the manga itself doesn't cover every attack. Filler, movies, and GT all introduce some new content, and some unnamed attacks in the manga were named in the Daizenshuu or in video games. The FUNimation dub is inconsistent, has had different versions and renamed attacks. It doesn't help that Dragon Ball was run as a seperate prequal series and dubbed with different standards (as opposed to in Japan where the whole series aired in order from Pilaf to Buu). Onikage725 22:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

And a side not to Desire, the first set of the first two seasons in English (Ocean cast, Pioneer release) as well as the early Pilaf dub, did not contain the Japanese tracks. Not that this changes any of the relevant points, I just figured I'd note that. All have since been redubbed and released dual language and uncut. Onikage725 23:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, looks like we'll have to use Daimao's subtitles. As I've asked before, who will check their FUNimation DVD's to see what the techniques are spelt as? I'll check my Dragon Ball ones and return later tonight with all the ones I can find. I can't print an image screen (I use an old Windows computer) so you'll have to take my word for it. Power level (Dragon Ball) 00:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The list isn't bad off in current form. I'll rattle off which entries I think need attention-

  • Death Beam It should be changed to Freeza Beam. Death Beam is simply what the recent PS2 games have gone by. I would assume this is because Coola has been prominent in the games of late. Coola didn't exist when Freeza was created, when he was made it was for two AU films only, and he wasn't in the games, so there weren't any confusion issues to worry about.
  • Galactic Buster What the hell? Where was this attack named? Not in the movie or Daizenshuu. Is it from BT2? If so does anyone know what Sparking! Neo called it? When I get a chance I'll throw in Butoden 2 and see if he had the move there too (and if it had a name). Onikage725 02:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Kyodaika Nothing to do with the name, but I want to take the mention of Saiyans out. Oozaru =/= Kyodaika.
  • Nobiru ude Again not the name so much as I'm itching to add VG info (Shin Budokai, BT2)
  • Paapuru kometto kurasshu As I mentioned before, this really ought to be Purple Comet Crash

Everything else, at first glance, seems ok to me. I could also get behind the idea of translating certain non-specific attacks (like eye beams, mouth beams). Input?Onikage725 02:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that the article is in good shape but i have some ideas for improvements
  • Abilities that have main articles should just have: Main article (Ability name)
  • each attack should have one (no more no less)picture
As for the naming of the moves I think using the romanizations is a bad idea if people are going to use Wikipedia for information on Dragonball They are going to be put off by the confusing names. I suggest we take each move individually and agree on which name is most commonly used/popular/familiar/whatever you want to call it. DBZROCKS 22:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
We need to have a consistent system for it though. It wouldn't make much sense to have an article comprised of, say, the Destructo Disc, Kikoho, Instand Transmission, Sokidan, and Special Beam Cannon, for example. Onikage725 02:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry guys, haven't really sat down and watched my DVDs yet. I promise I will soon and let y'all know what are the names Daimao uses in the Jap. audio w/ English subtitles. Power level (Dragon Ball) 22:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
It may sound odd to have mixed names but it sounds even worse when you have names that no one has heard of. DBZROCKS 21:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I know this is out of place here but who messed with the Template? this new version looks sloppy and incomplete.User:DBZROCKS 21:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Masenko disambiguation

"Masenko" was a redirect to this article, but some users (such as myself) might use that spelling while looking for masenqo. I have changed the redirect page to a disambiguation page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The true name of the Death Beam technique

Please note that I myself don’t own any of the Daizenshuu volumes so I personally cant back his works. If he’s not mistaken then the death beam is officially titled "Yubisaki kara no Kikou Ha" and its variant is "Yubisaki kara Renzokou Kikou Ha" (when Freeza fired multiple death beams at Goku and when Cell performed the same maneuver on Gohan at the beginning of the fight).


Well anyway heres the link. http://www.thegrandline.com/dbzinfo/attacks.html

It's a good list, but the main problem with getting any DBZ info off the internet, including Power Levels, Attack Names, and the like, when it comes to things that aren't explicitly stated, or implied, many opinions or thoughts about what you think it should be get passed off as actual canon facts (ideas about the Krillin/Tien argument come to mind)... which means that you should take all you find on lists such as that with a grain of salt. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.87.107 (talk) 21:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Sorry it took so long to respond. While I'm not famirul with "Krillin?Tien" argument I know for a fact that the power level listed on the internet isn't offical by anymeans. However this webmaster gather this from an offical sorce that has no condtion beyond Recoome's Renzoku Kiko Ha (he yells out Recoome Bomb(er)in the manga and anime). I would argue that this list of attacks are the closet mateiral we that is canon. This maonly because many of the attack names that listed orginated from the series videogames which we all know arn't canon to neother the anime or manga (Freeza Beam, Death Ball, Death Beam, Galactic Buster). I wanted to get opions from the other users first.

[edit] Really, what is with the names?

I realize that fans enjoy using the original Japanese names, but this isn't the Japanese Wiki. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Dragon Ball has your answer. "All information should be based on the original versions. Mainly, this will mean the Japanese versions (though at least one video game will refer to the English version). Because there are so many, no single English adaptation can be used as the English version. Besides the out-of-print adaptations, there are at least three English anime dubs and another company doing the manga, as well as another company translating the video games (which has been inconsistent at best). It would be inappropriate to pick any single distribution company over another." Takuthehedgehog 00:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
So instead of pleasing one large group or the other large group, you decide that it'd be best to please only a small group. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
If you don't agree with it feel free to bring it up on the project talk page. Takuthehedgehog 20:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Guidelines don't agree. Why is this article an exception to naming conventions, which say that the articles should be written for English readers if at all possible? And to write this article for English readers IS at all possible. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
The English versions are inconsistant. Many different companies have dubbed and released Dragonball it would not be able to be written for english users without complication. DBZROCKS 22:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Again, who is helped by this? You pretty much opted to simply help no one because it's too inconvenient. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
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