Talk:List of Croatians

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[edit] Ivo Andric is not from Croatia or a Croatian!

Ivo Andric is born in Bosnia in a catholic family! Ivo Andric has never lived in Croatia, he spent his life writing books in Serbia, that is also where he recived his Nobel prize. Claiming that Ivo Andric is from Croatia is as stupid as claiming that Kim Il Sung is from Zimbabwe. Ivo Andric has also stated numerous times that he is in fact Serb.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adnan22 (talk • contribs)., 17:15, 1 March 2007)

Adnan, read the article before you say something. Here's a scanned picture, where Ivo Andrić declared himself as a Croat (he did that part of his life). .
Is this enough? Kubura 07:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

No it is not enough, Ivo Andric has nothing to do with croatia, he has never lived in croatia. As it says on the paper he is from Bosnia. Later on in life Ivo Andric has stated that he is serb. He has spent his life in Serbia, and later on stated that he is a serb. Bottom line is, he is born in Bosnia and not croatia. He is definetley not from croatia or a croatian national.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.214.204.91 (talk • contribs). 13:00, 3 March 2007

Childish denying. Look at the evidence. He declared himself as Croat in one part of his life. But his family is Croat family. Live with that. Kubura 18:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No but rather nationalistic lies to decieve others. You do realise that many people in Bosnia and Serbia and hell even Slovenia call themselves Croats even though they DO not or have NEVER lived in Croatia? Explain to me why he chose to live his life in Serbia and not in his "homeland" croatia? Because he is NOT croatian, he could be croat but NOT croatian!

And stop deleting my argument about Marijan Benes, who also is NOT croatian!

[edit] Tesla in the wrong category

I noticed that Nikola Tesla is listed in "Social Science" not in "Inventors" and he really has nothing to do with social science!

[edit] complete rewrite needed

This article needs complete cleanup rewrite. This page has been a playground for idiots that make jokes and other idiots that use the former idiots to accuse entire croatian nation for megalomania.

So this way you demostrate your knowledge about this topic and supreme mind telling us who is idiot and what the accusation is?--Factanista 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, there is a lot of spam here. Some 3rd class artists or scientist propably see this page as a chance to put their names on the internet.

I suggest puttin "[citation needed]" next to every possible name here and deleting all unexplained names.

--Ante Perkovic 19:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

I'm willing to clean up this article as long as somebody agrees to do translations for me from the Croatian wikipedia whenever I need them. The translations don't have to be perfect, I'll fix them grammar and spelling-wise, just enough to work with. I'll place whatever translations I need here under:

[edit] Translations Needed

Antidote 13:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

  1. Ljubo Babić
  2. Vladimir Becić
  3. Cata Dujsin

[edit] Ivo Tatic

I found very little information on this architect but the information I did find suggests he was notable. Why isn't there any information on him? Does he perhaps have an article on another wikipedia? Antidote 13:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Asim Kurjak

Asim Kurjak has been accused for several infamous things, such as abusing harvested egg cells to achieve exceptional results in treating fertility problems and recently of pretty huge plagiarism of his science works (basically, copying parts of other scientists work). If that is proven true, he should be moved to "Infamous" section.

About Kurjak's plagiarism see details here [[1]]
It is now official: [[2]]. Mr. Kurjak told that he is going to ask for international examination of his two papers.
Police is investigating claims of giving his patients egg cells taken from other women [[3]] - HRT

[edit] Removal of actors

Why have the likes of Eric Bana, John Malkovich, Tom Hanks, Denise Richards etc...been removed from from the list here.

If someone has one parent or has some link to Croatia by blood why not mention it...and that inludes Marco Polo, Haydn and Maradona.

All famous people on Wiki who have a mixture of orign even a 1/4 tend to outline it in the first paragraph.


Jagoda 1 03:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

About Malković I know, he even has living relatives in Croatia, Marco Polo is questionable though he was born on Hvar. Ivo Andrić and Ruđer Bošković were Croats.



As per The Serbian Americans by Jerome Kisslinger, Chelsea House Publishers New York 1990 pages 99-101 John Malkovich is a Serb. The consulting editors for this book were:
Ann Orlov, Managing editor, Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups, Harvad MA
M.Mark Stolarik - President, The Balch Institute for Ethnic Studies, Philadelphia
David M. Reimers, Professor of History, New York University
James F Watts, Chairman, History Department, City College of New York
His father never declared himself as a Croat. The people who worked on the book above are supreme authorities as to the ethnic groups in the USA--Mario.radin 12:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Serb propaganda my friend in book form, i only know him to be know as American of Croat originJagoda 1 03:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

)

Yeah sure, whenever something is in Serbs favor it's Serbian propaganda, stop being childish and believing in CROATIAN PROPAGANDA. For god sake...

Also if someone has living relatives in Croatia, that doesn't make him Croatian! 91.148.98.69 13:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tesla

Has anyone counted how many times he's been added and removed? Just curious. I understand he was an ethnic Serb born and raised in Croatia. As someone with no involvement in the issue, may I point something out? The title of the article says "Croatians". Many people would interpret that to mean "People from the country of Croatia". The article is not titled "List of Ethnic Croats". How about drafting an introductory paragraph to set the rules? Maybe if you define the rules, it would be easier to decide who belongs and who doesn't. Just a suggestion. Fan-1967 00:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

No dilemma about Tesla. Born in the Military Frontiers which was (taht time) under direct rule of the Viennese Court, moved out the Austro-Hungarian Empire before 1881 when the Military Frontiers was integrated into the Croatia and Slavonia Kingdom. Claiming such a nonsense is the same as to claim that Archimedes is an Italian due to the fact that his birthplace Siracuse is in today's Italy.
And I'll repeat, nothing in the article defines what is meant by "Croatian". Fan-1967 16:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of what government was in power, the place was called Croatia when he was born there.Fan-1967 16:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Wrong - the place was called Military Frontiers
Really? I guess these people in 1868 didn't know that. They thought it was Croatia. Fan-1967 01:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Firstly read what you have intended to call upon. The reference given by you denies what you've wanted to prove.
It contains 54 occurrences of "Croatia" as a place name. Fan-1967 14:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
All I'm saying is, if you define the terms up top, you shouldn't have the constant revert wars below. Fan-1967 16:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Why isnt Sinisa Mihajlovic in there? He is as croat as tesla is

MARCO POLO WAS BORN IN KORCULA NOT HVAR

[edit] Juraj Dalmatinac

Translating Giorgio Orsini into Juraj Dalmatinac does not make him a Croat--Mario.radin 00:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite right. What is the purpose of putting him over and over on the list of Croatians???
THe purpose is that he was born in Zadar, Dalmatia and that he had big impact on Croatian architecture and culture. As for his latinized name 'Giorgo Orsini' it was common for people in those times to translate their names...so a Ragusan named Petar would be 'Pietro' in Italy and 'Peter' in England. --Factanista 07:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Twice wrong. As per the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juraj_Dalmatinac
... more correctly Giorgio Orsini (in Italian) (15th century), was born in the Dalmatian city of Zara (today Zadar, Croatia), which was then ruled by the Republic of Venice.
The are no documents that show that the name 'Juraj Dalmatinac', where used before the 19th Century, in fact the slavic name become in use only during the Croatian National Renaissance.
So, Giorgio Orsini was a Venitian by the birth and by the citizenship - and Zara was a Venitian city in the Venitian Dalmazia.
Which doesn't disapprove what I wrote to you just before. I suggest you read it carefully and with understanding. The same goes for the very article about him where he is at the end of the article marked as 'Croatian architect'. As for his latinized name most Slavs who had some service in Venice (or Ragusa/Dubrovnik) had their name latinized or vice versa...for example Ivan Gundulić -> Giovanni Gondola. --Factanista 11:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I read it carefully and with full understanding. Did you??? Anyway - I found a support to your 'knowledge' here [4]
Then came a bad mouth and a shameless Italian who spoiled the joy of this scientific discovery:
"Finellach" <krunoslav.raki...@hi.htnet.hr> ha scritto nel messaggio news:cm8n4b$hsd$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> Geos wrote: > > Tell me, my friend, is this the "theory", you are talking about? > > http://www.ikorcula.net/marcopolo/Pilic_Polo_Marko.htm > Yes.
Well, the first think is that chicken in italian is pollo and not "polo". Polo is a Venitian word for "Paul". This simple evidence breaks one of the bases of your theory.
Yeah, we have still the Polic theory available ...
Following this Pilic-Polic theory, I myself discovered that:
   * Michelangelo - born as Mihovil Angjelic - Ludvik, italienized his name and added Buonarroti

   * Charlie Chaplin - born as Karlo Čapljinac, actor, film director and producer (Winner of 1 Oscar Award)
So - you won! Go ahead and add these people above to your list of Croatians
Your sarcasm is cheap and unnecessary and second it does not add anything meaningful to this discussion. As I said the man had a profound influence on Croatian culture. I agree however that he was not a Croat in a modern sense of that word, he was living in 'Republic of Venice' which was at that time separate and independent political entity. But having that in mind he couldn't be an Italian either as you are obviously here propagating and the guy you are quoting. Venetian (as in from Republic of Venice) did not and cannot equate Italian, knowing that 'Venetian Republic' had all sorts of "ethnicities"...from various Slavs(Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins), Albanians and Greeks who all served, worked and lived there. Taking that in mind Juraj Dalmatinac (or Giorgo Orsini) was equally Italian as he is Croatian.
And btw. Finellach is me, the discussion I led with the chauvinist Italian Geos(could be you...I don't know) a year ago or so was full of his flawed and fallacious statements just as your argumentation here is as well. As for Polo-Pilić theory it is feasible because it is substantiated with evidence: 1. The surname Polo not being the word for chicken (but Polo) is irrelevant...what is relevant that both words are almost identically pronounced and the chanting is what matters. 2. Polo family CoA featured chickens which correlates with #1 directly and this is rather huge coincidence don't you think? 3. There are still to this today many Polo, Depolo and Pilić's in that area and these are most common surnames there which obviously means something. 4. His only motive was to slander and offend Croats with remarks such as "Slavic scum" and many others I wish not to repeat. Anyway Juraj Dalmatinac is on the page and will remain there, if you have problem with that ask an admin to mediate though I doubt he will support your "argumentation". Regards. --Factanista 17:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Junior Eurovision winner Dino Jelusic?

I'd like to suggest a Croat for inclusion in the list of Croats, Dino Jelusic.

He won the Junior Eurovision Song Contest in 2003.

He's already listed in Wikipedia at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_jelusic

A video of him singing the winning song, "Ti Si Moja Prva Ljubav" in 2003 at 11 years of age can be seen at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C99dJHRtEAE

His website is at

http://www.dino.hr/?content=&lang=en

(English)

http://www.dino.hr/

(Croatian)

I get the impression that he is highly talented, and I strongly suspect he will become well-known worldwide. (OK, that's just my opinion, but I give some reasons if required).83.71.5.32 19:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer is not your Ivan Lupis Vukić

Please, stop changing original Itailan names!!!

Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer is not your Ivan Lupis-Vukić!!!

Giorgio Orsini is not your Juraj Dalmatinac!!!

An­drea Meldola is not your An­drija Medulić!!!

Benedetto Cotrugli is not your Benedikt Kotruljević!!!

Mario Andretti??? A Croat??? Maybe - Marin Andretic?

--GiorgioOrsini 18:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

About forgeries I've mentioned above - see [5]

--GiorgioOrsini 17:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Giovanni Lupis is the same Ivan Lupis-Vukic as he is known as such in Croatia. He has every right to be on this list as he was born in Rijeka and originating from Pelješac. Juraj Dalmatinac or as you in Italy call him Giorgo Orsini was a man born in Zadar and worked all over Dalmatia and is one of the most important and prominent figures of medieval Dalmatian(and thus Croatian as well) architecture. He himself signed himself in Latin "Georgius Mathaei Dalmaticus" (George Mathew the Dalmatian) which is in Croatian Juraj Matej(ev) Dalmatinac. Andrea Meldolla or Andrija Medulic was also called "Schiavone" which means "the Slav", so the man was born in Zadar and was referred as Slav...think about it. As for Andretti he is not on the list. And finally this article is the list of Croatians and this doesn't necessary means they have to be ethnic Croats to be on the list. --Factanista 02:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer never called himself Ivan Lupis-Vukic!!!
You have a point there but this has been pointed out in Lupis' article. --Factanista 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Giorgio Orsini never called himself Juraj Dalmatinac!!!
Juraj Dalmatinac is the Croatian translation of his own signature in Latin (Georgius Dalmaticus), he certainly never called himself "Giorgo Orsini". --Factanista 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
An­drea Meldola never called himself An­drija Medulic!!!
Again you may be right, in fact by historical research of documents in Zadar it has been established that he indeed was Meldola or Meldolla and never Medulić. The first who used Medulić was was Ivan Kukuljević Sakcinski during the Illyrian movement and although incorrect this version has established itself in Croatian historiography. Nevertheless we known two very important facts: 1. He was born in Zadar and 2. He preferred to be called "Schiavone" meaning "the Slav". So he was a Slav born in Zadar, think about it. --Factanista 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
These Italian men never ever regarded themselves as Croatians!!!
Could you, please, comprehend that Michelangello cannot be 'croatized' by 'translating' his name into Mihovil Angjelic?
Your national frustrations cannot be healed this way, believe me!--GiorgioOrsini 02:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
First of all they were not "italian men" as Italy didn't even exist at that time and second the fact someone had or has Romance/Italic name doesn't necessarily makes him an Italian. Many Croats even today carry German, Italian/(Romance)Dalmatian, Hungarian and other surnames and who can deny them the fact they are Croats? You? This is especially ridiculous when we talk about these people who lived in middle ages and who certainly had no sense of ethnic belonging since at that time ethnicity meant something totally different from todays comprehension of the same term. You could argue that Meldola and Dalmaticus were Venetian though but this still doesn't mean it is equal to the modern term Italian as Venetian Republic held large areas of Slavic, Greek and Albanian populated territory and many of these people "latinized" their names and served in Venice becoming full fledged members of society. I mean the whole elite guard of the Doge was made of these people...first explicitly from Slavic men of Dalmatia(Croats) and then later by others (Albanians, Greeks, etc) --Factanista 08:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

According to this article's history, it has been repeatedly vandalized in recent time. This is classified as plain removal, and is to be as per Wikipedia:Vandalism reverted and reported here. --PaxEquilibrium 19:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Be more specific - what is the 'plain removal'? I've removed only Italians whose names were meaninglessly 'translated' as Croatian names. We do not need here a policeman - rather somebody who is able to understand the core of the problem called credibility and integrity of the editorial work.--GiorgioOrsini 23:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name spamming

This page needs thorough cleaning/filtering. Too many unimportant or not-so-important names. We don't have to list here every Croat on this world that exists or existed. Kubura 08:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Only Nazis used to 'nazionalize' people's names

It is well known that German Nazis used to change personal names in the occupied parts of Europe. I have a friend whose father was born in Slovenia (that time Yugoslavia) whose surname was Križnar and he was born in the town called Kranj - but in his birth certificate it reads: 'Krischner' born in 'Krainburg'. The same way are:

Giovanni Biagio Luppis von Rammer - Ivan Lupis-Vukić

Giorgio Orsini - Juraj Dalmatinac

An­drea Meldola - An­drija Medulić

Benedetto Cotrugli - Benedikt Kotruljević

Francesco Patrizi - Frane Petrić

So Neo-Nazis are active in today's Croatia!!!--GiorgioOrsini 18:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually that was quite common practice of Italian Fascist in occupied Croatian and Slovenian lands. Furthermore these people didn't had their names changed, they are simply known under these names in Croatia, if it bothers you close your eyes. --Factanista 18:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Put them on the List of Italians (if there is any reason), but do not remove them from here (just like Ivo Andric is both here and in the list of Serbs). Besides - this list includes all Croatians (not necessary of Croat ethnicity). --PaxEquilibrium 11:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mihajlovic

Why isnt Sinisa Mihajlovic in there?? He is just as much croat as Nikola Tesla is

Good remark. He is a Croat by his mother's side. Kubura 09:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion - Bishop Joseph James Potocnak - NOT A CROATIAN

I am the niece of Bishop Potocnak. My father is his brother. Both are alive; therefore, I know my heritage. Bishop Potocnak is 1/2 Ukrainian (Rusyn), 1/2 Slovakian. He is not a Croatian, nor does he consider himself one. He considers himself an Eastern European immigrant to the US because of his parents' background, but I know Croatia has NEVER been considered our land of origin. Please remove this as it is incorrect - and also unfair to the two countries to which he does associate himself. While I obviously consider this an indisputable fact as I am his niece, I will leave it to others to determine that. However, I'd like this changed as soon as possible. I would be happy to add the information under the other countries as well as a bio of my uncle.Winterlongone 01:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


hahaha, you're lying, to the US?? Isn't he from South Africa? I've added him to the list along with the other bishops... Potocnjak is either Slovanian or Croatian, probably Slovenian tho, now that I think about it...

[edit] Maradona

I dont believe Diego Maradona is croatian. Hes under the sports players. can anyone change this?

Thsi lists people who are Croatian, or who have "Croat ancestry" - which is the case with Maradona as his grandmother or somethign was a croat.

[edit] Dukes

Mislav and Domagoj should be added to the military list.

[edit] Cleaning of this article

This article needs thorough cleaning up.
So many names that don't deserve to be here. I see (self)propaganda of anonimous persons. Kubura 14:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sasa Petricic (Media) is not a Croat

He is Serbian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.76.20 (talk) 05:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Oscar Nemon

Please can you change the sculptor Nemon Oscar to Oscar Nemon as his name is the wrong way round? Many thanks, Emma —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.3.130.151 (talk) 19:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

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