Talk:List of Basques

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Luce Irigaray, feminist philosopher
Jose Maria Olazabal, golfer
Roland Orzabal, musician, Tears for Fears
Etienne de Silhouette, cabinet minister, France

How Basque is Silhouette? He is from Limoges. --Error 00:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

His name apparently comes from the Basque 'Zulueta'. There are only a few words in English that derive from Basque, & 'silhouette' is one of them. --Adamgarrigus 15:46, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)

Yeah. But we should be more strict than "having a Basque surname". Did he reside in a Basque fief? Did their parents? --Error 00:12, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm with Error here. Olazabal is Cantabrian, even if his surname is clearly Basque. --Sugaar 11:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Miguel Indurain, cyclist Unax Ugalde, actor Félix Likiniano Heriz , ETA´s logo maker Xabier (Txabi) Etxebarrieta , First ETA´s member killing somebody(a police) José Miguel Beñarán Ordeñana (Argala) One of ETA¨s TOP member, murdered by Spanish Unionist, I thik Batallón Vasco Español, but it could be AAA.--Ikertxo 07:32, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Create those entries and add them to the list. Or add them to the list at least, and then make the corresponding comment here on why you think they deserve to be in the list. Hopefully someone will create the entries.

Also join the Basque Wikiproject --Sugaar 11:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Please help - doesn't Vasco da Gama's first name Vasco mean Basque? Wouldn't that make him one? We refer to the Portuguese explorers but the great sailors of that region are the Basques - they may have bean fishing in the Grand Banks of Newfoundland before Columbus! Still there place names survive.

No. Vasco is an abbreviation of the (pre-Roman?) name Velasco. The Portuguese word for Basque is "Basco". Neither of the surnames Vázquez nor Velázquez imply Basque ancestry. --Error 01:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Velasco acording to the official webpage of the Basque Language, is a variation of the surname Belasko. Which could be true, since many basque surnames were changed to fit the Spanish alphabet, for example echeverria(etxeberria), Bolivar(Bolibar), or Landivar(Landibar). --chokolandivar 02:22, 03 August 2006 (UTC)

Belasko (Velasco > Velázquez, Vasco as Port. name) is an attested Basque and Aquitanian name (later surname) meaning "little/young crow" (apparently -sko was used then as now -txo: dimminutive). Bela (Vela > Vélez) was a variant of it (meaning "crow"). But now they are mostly Spanish and Portuguese surnames. --Sugaar 11:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

And for all that there was also a hockey player named Elmer Vasko.

Does he has any relation with Basque people or Basque Country? --Sugaar 11:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Does Pinochet really belong here? Pinochet is certainly not a Basque name. Even if he had Basque ancestry, the Basque people should disown him - Das Baz, 03/16/2006, 10:37 AM.

Andrés de Urdaneta, navigator, conquered the Phillipines with Legaspi.

Rafael Urdaneta, General, last president of the Republic of Great Colombia. (1830)

>>Does Pinochet really belong here? Pinochet is certainly not a Basque name. Even if he had Basque ancestry, the Basque people should disown him - Das Baz, 03/16/2006, 10:37 AM.<<

Hahaha ! It`s not that easy, dude. If a nation could simply disown those who brought shame upon it, the Stalins, Hitlers and Pol Pots of this world would be "disowned" by their fellow-countrymen in a blink of an eye. Would this change anything (except for ridding the respective peoples of their guilty consciences) ? The Basque Pinochet is not simply an individual who accidentally became an officer of the Chilenean Army. Among the European-derived landowner oligarchies of Latin America, people of Basquean descent were (to say the least) quite common.

I think that in this page there are a lot of people that, despite having basque ancestry, were not actually basques. You should remove many people from here , such as pinochet, che guevara... In my opinion, having a basque surname or ancestry doesn´t imply to be listed here. /anartz/

Contents 1 The Landetas 2 Wolfe Tone 3 Bring Back Tribal Councils 4 Proposal: separate Basques and people of Basque ancestry (diaspora) 5 Pinochet 6 Bascoms 7 Added Flags

[edit] The Landetas

I wonder if Manuel Landeta, Imanol Landeta and Jordi Landeta could be included? --Error 02:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you document recent connection to Basque Country?

[edit] Wolfe Tone

I asked at Talk:Theobald Wolfe Tone:

List of Basques has this man as "people born or resident in the Basque Country and people born elsewhere with significant Basque ancestry." Is it so? --Error 02:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

No. Not to my knowledge anyway. Tone was born in Ireland, his family were of English (I think) origin. He lived in France for several years during the revolutionary period and the United States for a brief time, but never in Spain or the Basque country.

Jdorney 14:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

--Error 02:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bring Back Tribal Councils

In simpler days, Tribes would hold Councils that could in fact strip a criminal of membership in the tribe, of his tribal name, etc. It would be a good thing if those councils could be restored in order that the Gruzians (Georgians) could expel Zhughashvili, the Germans What's-his name, the Khmer Pol Pot, the Basque Pinochet (if he is really Basque), etc., from the tribes. It is not a matter of "guilt" by association, but the shame that such monsters defile the good name of the Tribe. Das Baz 16:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal: separate Basques and people of Basque ancestry (diaspora)

It's not the same: I know that people of Basque ancestry in America, Spain or wherever may feel Basque and also that many Basques consider them Basques. But the more or less unanimous modern concept of Basque is one that lives in the Basque Country or at least has been born here.

It's surely cool that Guevara is a Basque surname but Che never had anny connection with the homeland of his ancestors. Many other names listed here are Amerikanuak (American Basques) or people that otherwise may have a very distant connection with the Basque country, often just genealogical.

I strongly suggest to clean up this list and include only Basques born/raised or living in the Country. The rest should be transfered to a separate list on the Basque diaspora. Else it's just very confuse.

(Btw, why is Pinochet listed as Basque: his surname is definitively not Basque - French maybe). --Sugaar 00:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You are right: Including him in this list was vandalism. Let him be deleted. Das Baz 18:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not so easy. Jesús Galíndez was a PNVer born in Madrid from Basque parents, who exiled in the Americas. Where do you put him? Iñaki Anasagasti was born in Venezuela, does not speak Basque, works (does he still?) in Madrid for PNV and identifies himself as Basque. Michelle Alliot-Marie probably lives in the TGV but is the mayor of a Basque city and parliamentary for Pyrenees-Atlantiques. There was an North African al-Qaeda operative (now in GTMO?) from French Basque Country. What about born Basques who emigrate or exile or go missioner for a long time? I think that the best is to comment as best as we can on how they are Basque (born, one parent, resident,...) --Error 00:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[Placeholder for text by Sugaar 08:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)]

Ana Palacio and Loyola de Palacio parents were from Portugalete and Deba. ISTR that the family has a house on the Basque coast. Actually, in the recent surge of cancer in Loyola, she was flown from the Basque Country where she was vacationing to Houston. I'm not so certain about their feelings on the subject.

I saw that you deleted Alonso de Ercilla from the diaspora section of the Wikiproject. From Bermeo Spanish pages:

Alonso de Ercilla nació en Madrid en 1533 y se crió en Palacio en calidad de paje del futuro Felipe 11. Siguió la carrera militar y formó parte del séquito real visitando así numerosos países europeos. El ansia de aventuras propició que Alonso se alistara en el ejército que partía a la sazón hacia América con el fin de , sofocar la rebelión de los araucanos capitaneados por Caupolican. De los apuntes y notas tomados en su estancia en América nacería a su regreso el poema épico «La Araucana».

Alonso de Ercilla jamás olvidó su vizcainía, calidad que el mismo Fuero le otorgaba aún habiendo nacido fuera del Señorío, de tal manera que con motivo de adquirir los hábitos de Caballero de Santiago pidió probanza de nobleza en Bermeo. No debemos tampoco olvidar los versos escritos en las lejanas tierras americanas añorando la patria de sus mayores:

«Mira a Bermeo cubierto de maleza, Cabeza de Vizcaya, y sobre el puerto los anchos muros del solar de Ercilla, solar antes fundado que la Villa. »

Depending on what is really meant, one could understand that Alonso was legally Biscayne.

I still stand for being open-minded. Remove Che and Pinochet but Ercilla and others should stay with a short justification on how they are Basques.

--Error 01:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I was setting the layout of the project, trying to make it nice and consistent. It's not any definitive decission and should be discussed in the Wikiproject rather than here. I just took a quick look at his biography an read: born in Madrid, dead in Madrid, lived in many different countries, so I considered him a dubious entry that needed some discussion. He is still listed in the discussion draft. But a I think that the Wikiproject, rather than an entry is a space for discussion, so you should discuss it there, even if I will likely give you the reason in this case (as diaspora Basque).

I didn't listed all the articles in the draft, just the most notable ones (on my POV, naturally). It's just an initial setup. --Sugaar 11:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pinochet

On the Basqueness of Pinochet:

General Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte was born in Valparaíso on November 25, 1915, the son of Augusto Pinochet Vera (descendant of Breton immigrants who arrived in Chile during the 18th century) and Avelina Ugarte Martínez. [...]he married Lucía Hiriart Rodríguez,

The genealogy of the Pinochets lists

María Antonia Urrutia Villagra [ya + 1806; h. Juan de Urrutia y Bravo de Villalba, y María Villagra Flores];

as a direct ancestor. Avelina Ugarte is from the Ugarte family from the namesake Navarrese place. She has some Arriagada [a variant of Arriaga?] ancestor. So his Basque heritage is quantitatively diluted. Don't know about his personal feelings or family traditions. --Error 00:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems that the Ugartes were lords of the house of Arcioz in Macaya (probably Macaye, Labourd). --Error 01:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

As I see it, all the list needs a good cleanup. First of all, I would separate "List of Basques" as people born and/or settled in the Basque Country, as Basque it's normally understood, and then "List of diaspora Basques" (and would limit it to people of the first generations that still keep some sort of connection with their ancestral homeland/culture). So I would not include Che or Pinochet but others may be perfectly valid. I don't think that having Basque ancestry as such makes you Basque. A much more direct Basque ancestry is among many PP politicians, including Aznar and the Palacios sisters (originally Jauregui) or infamous inquisitor Pierre de Lancre (originally Rostegui)... but these people do not consider themselves Basques nor others normally do. It's just a genealogical connection, not an identitarian one.

On the other side I must correct my earlier statement that Pinochet can't be a Basque surname. I really don't know its origins (it could be Gascon or otherwise Occitan) but the -chet suffix could seem to be a French deformation of -etxeta or -aitzeta (Pinuetxeta? Pinuaitzeta?).

In any case, the Pinochet lineage is American since c.1700 and the other (more clear) Basque surnames that appear in the genealogy page you linked could well have the same ancient American antiquity. We need something more than a surname to define someone as Basque. --Sugaar 08:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I answered in the above section as it seems more organized.

Pinochet unless more info is brought to light seems too remotely Basque for the list.

--Error 01:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bascoms

The Bascoms, including Remington seem too removed (from 1410!) from their Basque origins to be here if I read the Bascom tree correctly. --Error 01:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added Flags

I have started to add flags to represent Basques from Basque dispora. I have used this, [[Image:Flag of the Basque Country.svg|20px]] , to add in front of names of actual Basques from the Basque Country or to people born to TWO Basque parents. If the person is a Basque dispora I just put the flag of the country they were born in, in some cases where there is duel citizenship I put two flags. As of now I have finnished 4 sections but I have a horrible headache so I will work on the rest later. If anyone else would like to add them feel free to help.--Joebengo 22:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added all the flags except for Hisham II and Abd al-Rahman Sanchuelo because as far as I know they are not born Basque and not first generation Basques and there is no flag for Córdoba. I also added pictures on the right side of the pages, they are all Basques (born in the Basque Country, or born to Basque parents)--Joebengo 15:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Love the way the article looks now with the flags and portraits.Erudil 17:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)