Talk:List of Baptist sub-denominations
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- Could you explain in the article what a sub-denomination is? It is a new one to me. User:Rmhermen 00:20, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)
I will try to answer as best I can. I assume your reference is to the article a List of Baptist sub-denominations. Perhaps this is not the best choice for the title/subject, because the terminology sub-denomination may not be in common use. A sub-denomination is a subdivision of a group that is considered a denomination or primary religious body. A strict definition of denomination (such as 'a group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy' or 'a religious group having its own organization and a distinctive faith') does not technically fit Baptists, since each local Baptist congregation is an independent entity. Nevertheless, Baptists, with their broad theological and historical connections, are usually considered a denomination. In some attempts to categorize various Baptist groups under this broad band of commonality, the major subdivisions (or kinds) of Baptists have been called sub-denominations. For an example, see Howard Dorgan's book, Giving Glory to God in Appalachia: Worship Practices of Six Baptist Subdenominations. In this book, Prof. Dorgan discusses Missionary Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Old Regular Baptist, Regular Baptist, Free Will Baptist, and Union Baptist (which, IMO, is not a distinct category). Categorizing Baptists in 17th century England was quite simple - two broad divisions, General & Particular. Now it can be quite an exercise in guesswork and opinion. Another terminology that is used, and might be preferable for the article, is sub-groups. Perhaps you will weigh in with a suggestion on this.
In the article as it now stands, the first division (1.1 By location) really lists Baptists by associational fellowships (or unions, conventions, et.al) rather than by sub-denominations, and the second division (1.2 By Historical and Doctrinal Relationships) is more in line with the idea of sub-denominations (though it is quite incomplete and needs work). I fully realize that others might not take this same approach.
I intend to take some time later and put some kind of introduction at the top of the article. Perhaps this interaction will give us some ideas. Thanks. Rlvaughn 03:55, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Nothing wrong in using a technical term if we explain it and if there is no other more common term. I am only familiar with general sources which refer to all types as denominations, whether types of Lutheran, Baptist or any other. Of course this also fails with respect to say Anglicanism which has separate national administration but no doctrinal differences. Rmhermen 04:27, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Article Title
I noticed that someone changed "List of Baptist sub-denominations" in the heading to "List of Baptist Association and Conventions". I am reverting it for now and soliciting discussion. I have no major objection to "List of Baptist Association and Conventions". But the title of the encyclopedia article and heading should match. It should be left as is, or title and heading both changed to match, IMO. - Rlvaughn 22:39, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
In the next few days, I hope to take some time and rename those associations, conventions, and fellowships which are given in their native language. I originally thought this was proper (and had seen it done on the List of Christian denominations, but Wikipedia:Naming conventions indicates this is not correct:
- Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity...
- Use English words
- Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form. - Rlvaughn 21:49, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Most Independent Fundamental Baptist churches are members of a state association, while their pastor is a member of Fundamental Baptist Fellowship association. Should the state associations be listed under that?
- Mydotnet, I looked back over the list to see if I could remember what concept I was laboring under when I first made it. I think on the U. S. groups I was trying to list those that are national as opposed to regional. The only one I found that was regional was the New England Baptist Fellowship. Others may be "regional" in fact because they are small, but they are not necessarily organizationally designed to be so, as, for example, the Minnesota Baptist Association is. Anyway, take a look at what I've done and see what you think. Rather than include these in the original list, I've broken them out under a heading titled "U. S. - Regional bodies". Will be interested in hearing your opinion. Thanks. - Rlvaughn 03:40, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
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- Looks great! Very Nice! - mydotnet
