Talk:List of Advance Wars COs

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Contents

[edit] CO information here?

I believe the article would become just too long if we include all the CO information here. That is why I will be merging/expanding each of the CO in their page instead of here. -- ReyBrujo 11:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

How is the list going to be too long if every CO gets a paragraph similar to the ones I've written? All Lash (Advance Wars) has that that paragraph didn't is overdetailed description of her powers and CO power, and a detailed, point by point description of her appearance. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 13:21, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I was counting on the CO picture as well. It should be decided whether the information goes here or not. There are already Lord Sturm (this is how the other articles should be, if they are to be done at all), Adder, Lash and Flak articles, and don't want to add new articles if they will end as redirects. -- ReyBrujo 13:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Lord Sturm is the same as Lash (Advance Wars); the article is 90% duplication (plot summary of AW and AW2), overdetailed description of his appearance, and overdetailed description of his abilities. I would have already merged it into this list after cutting the bloat, as needless duplication and per WP:FICT, but it's currently undergoing a peer review.
As for images, I was working on getting some headshots, which would fit quite nicely next to the paragraphs. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 13:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Ok, so those articles will become redirects to here. As for headshots, maybe it is possible to just use the buddy icons from the original AW:DS site (www.advancewars.com/awds/_dloads/buddy_icons/awds_lash.gif Lash example). -- ReyBrujo 13:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Ideally, yeah they would, but User:A Link to the Past is adamant about keeping them as stand-alone articles. He reverted my attempts to turn the Adder, Lash, Flak, and Hachi articles into redirects to here.
As for those icons, I dunno. They're awfully small, and don't show much relevant d etail. I was thinking of tracking down some screenshots and cropping them, or just cropping the promo art. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 14:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, in YOUR opinion they'd work out just fine here. But if you want anyone to respect that, you have to actually respect that people DON'T want you to redirect those articles. With full knowledge of opposition to these articles being moved, you took a complete disregard for what I felt and went ahead with it anyway. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Silly redundancies like "in my opinion" were beaten out of me long ago by an English instructor; obviously any subjective statement I make is in my opinion unless specified otherwise.
Please tone down the rhetoric. Taking hard lines doesn't serve any purpose, and, well, I already said you were adamant about keeping them as standalone articles. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 15:41, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I would guess the afd result with Hachi page would be applied to all the other pages. If those pages stay, no information should be put there, though (aka, "main*"), just a list of COs. -- ReyBrujo 16:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll bet money the close result will be "Keep, and hash out whether it should be merged on the relevant talk pages."
Any thoughts on whether to merge them or not, ReyBrujo? - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 16:04, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

That fact is as relevant as you being adamant to trying to redirect them. I legitimately think they deserve articles, you do not. Just because you acknowledge my wanting to keep them as articles doesn't mean you show any regard to it. Also, the way you're treating Hachi's AfD is as if he's the poster-child for the AW character articles. No, AfD does not work that way, AMIB. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

My opinion on the subject is clear, yes. There's a dispute, so I'm leaving it to the status quo while we're discussing this. Are you accusing me of holding the opinions it's clear that I hold? I'm terribly confused here.
ReyBrujo was the one who suggested that Hachi's AFD would be a useful precedent. I actually said it probably wouldn't be, as it's not the place to quibble about merges. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 16:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What's in a Name?

Link: www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/awrj/chara/index.html

Japanese Version = American Version

  • John = Jake
  • Rachel = Rachel
  • Max = Max
  • Domino = Sami
  • Ryo = Andy
  • Catherine = Nell
  • Hachi = Hachi
  • Billy = Grit
  • Ewan = Colin
  • Sasha = Sasha
  • Whip = Olaf
  • Yamamoto = Sensei
  • Kouzou = Grimm
  • Aska = Sonja
  • Kikuchiyo = Kanbei
  • Bittmann = Javier
  • Hannai = Jess
  • Eagle = Eagle
  • Mop = Drake
  • Zipo = Jugger
  • Cat = Lash
  • Chakka = Koal
  • Hawke = Hawke
  • Candle = Kindle
  • Snake = Adder
  • Kong = Flak
  • Herr Bose = Sturm
  • Herr volt = Von Bolt

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by arima (talk • contribs) .

Actually, I was about to add the Japanese names the next time I did a full redo. I was thinking "Hachi (Bee in the Japanese version) is a mutant dinosaur-like creature who attacks Tokyo..." (or something along those lines) would be a good format. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 02:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Von Bolt's original Japanese name is "Hell Volt". Also, Grimm is "Kouzou," not Kouzo, and Javier is "Bittmann," not Billmann. — Prizm (talk) 00:55, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
That's not what it said on the Official Japanese Site. --Arima 07:10, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Never mind. I wasn't looking hard enough... --Arima 07:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know why so many names were changed about? I can understand Ryo to Andy, but others (for example Billy to Grit) seem somewhat random. Crimson Shadow 12:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CO information

i added some information about Kindle and Von Bolt

BS Guus 09:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Currently orphaned images

These images were orphaned when Adder's, Lash's, and Flak's articles were merged into this list. They will likely end up being used in this list, possibly after being cropped; in the meantime, please don't delete them.

  • Image:Adder.png
  • Image:Flak.png
  • Image:Lash.png

- A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 00:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Since higher-res imageswere found and cropped, I deleted these myself. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 15:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flak/Jugger Damage Variable Formula

  • If Damage is more than 100%, do not Use Damage Variable.
  • If Damage is less than 100%, Use Damage Variable.
  • If Damage Variable is a Negative Number, Decrease Attack Power.
  • If Damage Variable is a Positive Number, Increase Attack Power.
  • Damage 75% * 0.9 (DV = -1) = 67%. Damage 75% * 1.1 (DV = +1) = 82%.

I'm not really a Math Genius but I'm not too far off am I?

--Arima 06:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

This kind of details should go into a Wikibook, I believe. -- ReyBrujo 12:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Don't repeat the name

Having a subtitle Andy and the paragraph begining with Andy in bold (or Hachi, Nell, Jake, etc) looks awful. The paragraph can be started in thousands of ways, and repeating the subtitle in bold isn't the best one. -- ReyBrujo 20:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I guess Katamari Damacy and Wario (both featured articles) are wrong. And Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (for that matter, every Star Wars movie), and Nintendogs, and Kirby, and Princess Peach, and Nintendo, and Kirby: Canvas Curse, and The Legend of Zelda series, and The Legend of Zelda, and Henry Fonda, and Nintendo DS, and Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Super Mario Bros. 3, and Groucho Marx, and James Stewart, and Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, and Advance Wars: Dual Strike, and Nintendo Revolution, and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker... need I go on?
To put it shortly, no, I will go with how Wikipedia articles do it, thank you. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, you are wrong. My point is that after ==Andy== the next sentence should not immediately begin with Andy. Does any of those examples have that? No. The paragraph is subtitled Andy. We are obviously talking about Andy. Why to begin the sentence with Andy? -- ReyBrujo 02:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
That makes no sense. Wario has his name right at the top of the article, so why should it be stated right away as it is? Because that's how it goes. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Wario is the article name, not a subsection name. -- ReyBrujo 04:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
...So, am I to understand that you're saying that the article name is harder to find out than the name of a header? - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I'll rephrase them. This isn't exactly a big deal. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 03:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Incidentally, please make sure you internally link any references to other COs, and don't remove the repeated links to the games and Japanese language (because of the use of anchor links). On the other hand, there's no reason to point out that the character is a CO or from the give nation, as the intro covers this already.

I'm going to try to start each section with something other than the CO's name, but please don't cut the first sentence down to a fragment. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 04:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The Black Hole section is very good, because it is clear. But maybe that happens because there is more background in the BH army than in the others. As for the internal link, there should be roughly one link per page. Except Black Hole and Orange Star, all others met this criteria. And remember the criteria for internal linking: We should wikify the words or expressions the user is likely to click. I believe he is not going to want the definition of "japanese", but instead want to know what "units", "CO", "[Super] CO Power", "Macro Land", "Cosmo Land", "Omega Land", "Allied Nations" and "Fog of War" (between many others) mean. Of course, he "may" want to learn what "japanese" is, but since it is a very unlikely event, it shouldn't be wikified more than once per subsection (or once in the whole article). -- ReyBrujo 04:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
If you feel strongly about removing the Japanese language links entirely, go for it. (I'm indifferent; it was just less effort to add them to the remaining entries than to remove them entirely.) If we have them, though, we should have one for each header, since the headers are often going to be linked directly. In general, when you have a list of standalone, multi-para entries, you should treat them as new instances as far as the multiple-links-to-the-same-page MOS rule applies.
As for the locations and Advance Wars terms, I'm going to (eventually) improve the game articles to explain these terms, and possibly explain them briefly in the intro of this article. I really don't want to see a dozen articles explaining every term and place from this series of games, though; that's why I wanted to turn this into the one page about all the COs, for example. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 06:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Explaining http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Advance_Wars_COs&diff=26871259&oldid=26833180 this diff

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Advance_Wars_COs&diff=26871259&oldid=26833180 This reversion needed more explanation than I felt was reasonable in an edit summary. I'm going to sign each separate issue separately, so they can be replied to and discussed separately.

I oppose using ; formatting instead of headers vehemently. It breaks the TOC, it shrinks the headers, it makes it impossible to link directly to a character's header. If there's a problem with having the Black Hole COs as a level 4 header because of the split, just make the other COs level 4 headers. That way, level 2 is the nation, level 3 is any separate organization, and level 4 is the individual CO. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of which, why were Rachel and Jake separated into "Macro Land" COs? All the new COs in AW:DS are from Macro Land. Seems a little silly, but I don't feel terribly strongly about this. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the rv of Von Bolt, I thought "Bolt Guard" referred to his three COs, not his army as a whole. That said, if you're going to cram Bolt Guard into the first sentence, make sure you also rewrite the second paragraph, which also defines Bolt Guard. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Hawke is presumed dead at the end of AW:DS. Granted, it's blatantly obvious that he's not, considering all the hints dropped, but it should be mentioned that all the characters assume that he's dead. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

What on earth is wrong with Sonja's image? It's been removed twice, and I can't imagine why. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The Sonja image is an alternate costume. Her regular appearance is brown hair, no glasses and a green-colored suit. In regard to Macro Land, Javier, Sasha and Grimm were working with Jess, Colin and Sensei closely - Sasha is Colin's brother, not sure about Javier's relationship ATM, and Sensei is Grimm's master.
Kindle, Koal and Jugger all realized that he survived.
Yes, but for one - it needs to be clarified that the Bolt Guard is separate from Black Hole, and for another - using headers makes the TOC large and ugly. Unless, of course, you're able to keep some Headers out of the TOC. - A Link to the Past (talk) 14:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, turns out glasses-Sonja is the Japanese-only Sonja design; this has been clarified in the list.
If the Bolt Guard know Hawke survived, clarify this in the text. I don't recall them saying that, though.
The TOC including all of the characters is a feature, not a bug. It makes for a long TOC, but, well, that's necessary, given the number of COs. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 14:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Bah, too slow, crashing versions. You could also explain that in the american (worlwide too?) version Grit does not use that hat, before A Link to the Past removes the image. Note that Nintendo is using the japanese versions to promote (see Artwork in Nintendo.com), so before removing any new image see if it is there. By the way, I don't remember such a long TOC list where each entry is so small. Don't like it, but understand it. -- ReyBrujo 15:12, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't the Super CO (good) theme sound like...

Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit? Try ddrsonic.ytmnd.com/# this YTMND if you don't believe me.

Not really... The Republican 03:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it sound's like Andy's theme. The Republican 21:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overspecific game info

Wikipedia is not GameFAQs. Please resist the temptation to overwhelm this article with overspecific game info, such as the number of stars for each CO power, the minor tweaks made to the COs between games, and the specific percentages for strengths/weaknesses. The place to post such info is GameFAQs or Wikibooks, not this project. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

So can you tell me how I should point out that Lightning Drive's use is to target the enemy's initiative, primarily in the air battle? (Bear in mind that AW2 Eagle's air units under LD deal 130% damage and take only 70%, so typically, Eagle will get the edge from B-Copter vs. B-Copter or Fighter vs. Fighter even if the enemy force strikes first. (45% (which is slightly less than 65% * 7/10), and Eagle's retribution in his worst case scenario is 42% (IE 65% * 13/10 * 1/2).))
You don't. Wikipedia is not the place to give advice, such as "Lightning Drive's use is to seize the initiative." - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, please don't add the verbatim profiles for each character. Not only is this largely inane trivia, but it's also copyvio. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fugly

Don't many the COs look a lot uglier in the headshots than during gameplay cut scenes? The Republican 01:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kanbei

The article states that Kanbei has an incresed firepower and defense bonus, but unlike characters such as Hawke and Flak, it neglects to summurize the exact percentage value. Perhaps someone could point this out; if I'm not mistaken, his troops have the most powerful stats in the game. -ZeroTalk 15:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

This isn't Wikibooks, so we shouldn't have the exact percentage values around here. But you're not really mistaken, as Kanbei in AW2 was more powerful than Sturm in AW2, and AWDS Kanbei is (though arguably, but mainly because of cases such as Sensei) unmatched in power. I put in the basic effects of his CO Powers in the article as well. --Juigi Kario (Charge! * My crusades) 23:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Just because its not wikibooks, doesn't mean percentage values shouldn't be warrented. I'm going to research it and include them myself. -ZeroTalk 06:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Done. I found that Kanbei's troops cost funds at 120% the norm, and they are deployed at 130% (!) offensive and defensive power. His Normal CO power makes and positive increment of 20% attack and 10% defense. His super furthur increses this, giving him an an increse of 30% offense and 20% defense. Its no wonder he becomes an unlockable character in later games. -ZeroTalk 11:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Scar (FMA).JPG

Does'nt this guy resemble Hawke? The Republican 16:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olaf's Picture

The headshot given of Olaf is an alternate costume color. I suggest that we restrain ourselves to correct CO pictures.Justanotherguy 01:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to provide one of the US color scheme. The white beard is the default Japanese appearance, which was used in the promo art Nintendo provided for AW:DS. Some of the other appearances also differ slightly from the US version. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CO Couples?

Should we add implied pairing among the COs into the article. I doubt it, but I wanted to check to see if anyone thinks it's worthy to be put in. The most obvious one is Sami - Eagle followed by a Grit - Nell - Max Love Triangle. Andy and Sonja seemed to have some synergy to me as well. Gavyn Sykes 23:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not? Just don't forget Jake and Rachel; in the last mission, if you pick those two, it's implied they start a relationship. Also, Grimm refers to them as "lovebirds". Crimson Shadow 23:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I recall that but I always thought Jake and Sasha was a possibility as well.

Ok here's a list: Sami - Eagle Grit - Nell - Max Andy - Sonja Sonja - Grit (They worked together in AW1, I thought they had something going to a certain extent) Jake - Rachel Jake - Sasha

Anything else? Gavyn Sykes 00:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I say no. Couples would make the article unencyclopedic and opinionated. <3 bunny 19:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sturm

Sturm is NOT an unlockable character, I know of people who have went into the ROM and found nothing of Sturm there, and neither is any graphic of Sturm available in the ROM. He is NOT unlockable through getting all 300 medals (all you get is a final wallpaper). Therefore all mentions of Sturm being unlockable in any way is therefore false. <3 bunny 19:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

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