Talk:Light-sport aircraft

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Contents 1 Merge with Ultralight aviation 2 Keep LSA separate 3 How it is written 4 Caps?

[edit] Merge with Ultralight aviation

KEEP Light Sport Aircraft is not Ultralight Aviation. Please see the Federal Aviation Regulations for more details.24.9.10.235 03:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

• See my response on Talk:Ultralight aviation. McNeight 04:43, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keep LSA separate

LSA are a separate category from "ultralight aircraft" in the US, in terms of both performance and basis of certification. Ultralights are currently regulated under FAR Part 103, while LSA are regulated as traditional aircraft.

[edit] How it is written

This article is about the FAA LSA category of aircraft. They write it "Light-sport Aircraft". So should we. The hyphen is weird but it is their hyphen. But the A is capitalised. The term was NOT in common usage before the FAA invented it. It is a proper name. (When the term is in common use, if ever, to refer to aircraft which are generally of lighter weight and generally of sporty character then we need an article "light sport aircraft". No caps, no hypen.) Article renamed to capitalise the A. Paul Beardsell 07:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caps?

Shouldn't this article be titled "Light-Sport Aircraft" if it is the proper name referring to the FAA category, or Light-sport aircraft if it is converted to Wiki standard caps? Dhaluza 14:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I refer you to the preceding section. That is how the creators of the term write it. And it is regular English that only the first letter of a hyphenated word is capitalised. The hyphen is weird, but they (the almighty FAA) use it. And I believe the article's name complies correctly with WP recommendations for proper nouns as article names. Paul Beardsell 22:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I checked both the online and printed versions of 14 CFR Part 1.1, as well as Parts 61 and 91, and the capitalization is consistent. Only the first letter is capitalized, unless all are capitalized in a title. The only instance of the camel-caps was in an FAA web page, obviously an error. Also the AOPA and EAA sites did not use the camel-caps either.Dhaluza 00:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I wish you had entered into a discussion rather than just going ahead despite my objection. Paul Beardsell 03:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This creates a problem. The problem is is that Light-sport Aircraft is the proper noun of a category of aircraft. Caps rules demand the initial letter of each word is capitalised in proper nouns, and for good reason. I suggest that changing the caps as you have done, even though this may be consistent with FAA usage, is not good English (or even good American English). We need to maintain the understanding that an aircraft said to be a Light-sport Aircraft is understood to be an example of something properly defined. Note "proper". In the USA this might not cause much confusion as all involved with aviation in the USA is well aware of this new FAA category. But there is no such thing as Light-sport Aircraft outside the USA. There may be light-sport aircraft but that is just a descriptive term. Imagine that a different driver's license was allowed for a new official category of car, the Light-sport Car, but that this was USA only. The descriptive term light-sport car may still be used in Europe but would have no regulatory or legal effect. But anybody seeing it capitalised would (or should) realise this means it is a proper noun - and thus well defined by someone, somewhere. The FAA has made a mistake here of no or little consequence in the USA. But WP is a global resourse, not an American one. I'll wait a reasonable time for your reply and before I undo. Paul Beardsell 03:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the FAA made this up, so they can call it what they like, and we are bound to the primary sources. It seems the common usage by reliable sources is to capitalize all three words when it is used in a title. You are welcome to make your argument directly to them, correcting their usage, but we are supposed to follow convention, not set it.Dhaluza 04:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The FAA did not say don't discuss on the Talk page. And we are not supposed to slavishly echo the English mistakes of others. Paul Beardsell 19:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Well that is if it is in fact an "English mistake", and not just another acceptable usage. If it is a mistake, it's rampant on OKC, since I found this tidbit in the new Instrument Flying Handbook: "Turn-and-Slip Indicator". What is your source for this capitalization rule? Dhaluza 22:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mostly from my own understanding. I (arrogantly) have found that my written English is fairly standard and I (humbly) pay attention to keep it so. I cannot (trivially) find a WP source for the "s" of Light-sport Aircraft to be lowercase or otherwise. I will ask on the caps talk page. But there are many, many references here (proper noun, capitalisation) and elsewhere for proper nouns to be capitalised in English. Paul Beardsell 22:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the FAA doesn't even cap the first letter when they use it in the middle of a sentence, at least not in the online version of the CFR, which is the only convenient copy I have at the moment.--chris.lawson 06:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Good point, I was looking at the camel-caps issue specifically, but can confirm that the printed version of 14 CFR is similarly consistent with the online reference you checked. As far as the capitalization and confusion over a legally defined proper noun, if the context of an article requires alternate capitalization, all the various alternatives are redirected to the main article, so the wikilinks will work even if not piped. Dhaluza 12:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

But are you saying that is the usage we too should use here? If so Dhaluza has only done half a job - all the links to this article will need editing again to remove the cap L where not at the beginning of the sentence. Paul Beardsell 19:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It is not strictly necessary, but I did change most of the major links. I did not do all of the individual aircraft pages. Dhaluza 21:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I've taken care of some individual pages, and I'm in the process of getting around to all of them, but I'd welcome any assistance.--chris.lawson 21:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it not useful to be able to distinguish between "light sport aircraft" - which before the FAA's introduction of the new category, would have meant something like a Pitts Special or a Super Decathlon or a RV6, and "Light-sport Aircraft"? Paul Beardsell 22:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

See that hyphen? Mmm, I thought so.--chris.lawson 00:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The easier the ability to distinguish the better. Or don't you think so? Paul Beardsell 02:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry the above sounded a bit snippy. Frankly, I think anyone using the term "light sport aircraft" to refer to something that does not meet the FAA's definition of a light-sport aircraft might be better off finding a different term. Like it or no, the FAA has pretty much taken over and monopolised the term, and to refer to anything else with similar terminology is now confusing at best.--chris.lawson 06:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)