User talk:Libro0

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Libro0, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. If you would like to experiment with Wikipedia, I personally invite you to do so in my own sandbox (just follow the simple rules!). Again, welcome! — ßottesiηi Tell me what's up 19:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: World Cup squads

Hey, some full names are still there. Click on players' names and check. Of course, some as Pelé, Garrincha or Zico have their full names listed on their respective articles. —Lesfer (talk/@) 20:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Cup standings

Hello. I think it is an interesting idea but I would prefer adding it to main article of proper World Cups. I have updated the flags and going to finish converting players to standard "first name surname" format. - Darwinek 15:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1930 World Cup

Despite there not having been a match for third place at Uruguay 30, the final standings put the Yanks in third place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Libro0 (talk • contribs).

How do you work that out? Jooler 08:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Goal difference was not used as a criterion to separate teams in the World Cup finals until 1970.
The schema that was used in World Cup qualifiers and finals from 1958 up til 1970 was goal average. However in every World Cup up until 1966, goal average was only used as a last resort before it went to the drawing of lots. i.e. before resorting to goal average teams on equal points had to play a play-off. In 1930 there was no criterion in place by which any decision about who had finished 3rd or 4th could be determined. They didn't use goal average, they didn't use goal difference, they didn't use count of goals for (ignoring goals against), they didn't use number of corners, they didn't draw lots and they didn't play a play-off. There was no 3rd place in 1930, just like there is no 3rd place in the Wimbledon Championships, there were two losing semi-finalists. Goal difference was brought into play in league football to encourage attacking play and thus it influences how many goals teams score. Do you think that if the teams were aware that their goal average/difference would make a difference to their position in respect of 3rd/4th place then it might have had an influence on how many goals they put no the back of the net? Using modern criteria retrospectively for the 1930 World Cup makes no sense whatsoever. If it does, then why don't we award 3 points for a win instead of 2 and then see who would have qualified for the semi-finals? Jooler 21:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Final Standings

I appreciate your hard work in producing these very interesting tables, but I'm afraid they contravene Wikipedia:No original research, and I've removed them from the articles. I am sorry to have to delete them as I know a lot of effort must have gone into them, but unless you were able to supply references that they were published in a reputable publication, they are not suitable for Wikipedia. I suggest you either upload them to one of the many free web hosts out there, or that you userfy them. I can help you with this if you like. --Guinnog 22:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

There have been various attempts to include league tables like this for the World Cups over the last months and all have been deleted. While they are interesting in a way, they are definitely original research as described in the policy I referred you to above, and so cannot be placed in the articles. You should certainly not insert them again without first obtaining consensus in the relevant articles' talk pages. To userfy them would mean setting up a subpage in your user space; I, for example have User:Guinnog/gallery in mine. There would be no objection to having them there. --Guinnog 12:02, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate that it must be draining when your hard work is deleted, which is why I sent you my original message above. Unfortunately, being "harmless" is not sufficient for inclusion here. The statistics are not of course in dispute here; it is your analysis of them which makes the tables you want to include original research. By including them, even with the tag "unofficial", we run the risk that readers (who may not be experts on football) may think these "standings" have some meaning. I'm afraid I will continue to strongly resist the inclusion of any such tables in the articles. Sorry. --Guinnog 15:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. This is not a decision that can be taken by one or two editors. We need to open it up for debate and try to reach a consensus. I am thinking about where the best place for that discussion would be. Do you have any thoughts on it? --Guinnog 18:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 Gold Cup

Hi, thanks for your message. Feel free to change it back, I just wanted to make it simpler overall, but you're probably right. Sorry for not discussing it in the talk page, I didn't think it was too big of a change. Regards, --Gabbec 07:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1934 Hungarian Squad

Hi! Sorry for deleting J. Rozsonyi. I was pretty new back then on the Wikipedia, and I was not aware of the talk page. The reason I deleted him is that I could not find any records about a Hungarian player with this name at all! I know you can find many references which state that Hungary had a player on the 1934 World Cup, but he never played a game. But I beleive, all of these come from the RSSSF page [1].
What makes me think this is that he is the only player who's first name is missing from every single homepage dealing with this issue [2] [3] [4] [5].

Also he is the only one who's position is unknown (same references). And above all if you check the order of the players on every single site, he is mentioned between Moré and Tamássy. That's what makes me think that the source of information is the RSSSF homepage. On might also note that only English language references are stating this player.

About a football player with the name J. Rozsonyi. According to my knowledge, no player with that name has ever played for the Hungarian national team. You can find every single player who played for the Hungary on this page [6] (It is complete from 1902 to 2001), and this player is not mentioned. Also I have several books about the Hungarian national team, but none of them states this name. As an addition I have a book which is about all the games of the National team, including friendlies against club teams, the games of Hungary 'B', Hungary 'C', the amateur and the professional national team, youth national teams, West-Hungary, East-Hungary, Budapest selected etc. [7]. It doesn't say anything about a player called Rozsonyi again at all. I've checked every single match between 1930 and 1938, and I didn't find anybody with the name Rozsonyi.

Also I have a book which has every 1st league game the team of Újpest has ever played. I couldn't find any players with the name Rozsonyi there either in the squads of the opponents of Újpest. If you add all this, I think we can state, this player called J. Rozsonyi has never existed, it is just a mistake that he is in there. The "closest name" I can think of is Rozgonyi, a player of Kispest in the 1930's. But as far as I know he didn't go to the World Cup either, and also he never played for the national team. I have contacted the historian of the Kispest homepage, and I'm waiting for his e-mail on Rozgonyi.

Sorry for not having any online references, but the history of Hungarian footbal is very poor on the Internet. :-(

Hi! I have new information about the topic! My friend is in the Hungarian National Library at this moment, and I asked him to look up some information about the topic! He just called me from there in a second, he checked both sports newspapers (Nemzeti Sport & Sporthirlap) from 1934 and this guy, called Rozsonyi is Rozgonyi from Kispest. I don't have his first name yet, I will have to work on it, but we do not need to add him to the World Cup Squad, because on the very last day of nomination there were certain changes made in the Hungarian squad. Rozgonyi and two other players were left out, and three new players, including Biro were included in the squad! My friend will send me an e-mail tonight or tomorrow, with the exact Hungary squad for the 1934 World Cup from the Hungarian newspapers, including the three changes on the last day of nomination!!! I got very interested about the topic :) So as a summary, the original Hungarian squad did include Rozgonyi, but the final squad after the three changes on the last day, did not! So Rozgonyi did not travel to Italy.

Anyway, there is no such Hungarian name as Rozsnoyi (it doesn't fit to the Hungarian grammer since y as a stand alone letter doesn't exist, only together with l, t or n (ly, ty and ny), so it is a mistake for sure. :)

Also I am a fanatic of Újpest FC, and many times they ask me about club history information, since I am researching the club history together with the guy who is in the Library right now :) So if you are looking for details on Hungarian football history, please feel free to contact me. I am also in touch with Újpest FC, the homepage editors are both my friends, while I also know the chairman in person.

Regards, --Gabute 12:43, 8 November 2006 (CET)

Hi again! I've got the final version now from the 1934 Hungarian Sports newspapers (Nemzeti Sport & Sporthírlap): The original squad of Hungary was the following:
Goalkeepers: József Háda, Antal Szabó
Defenders: József Vágó, László Sternberg, Gyula Futó, Rezső Rozgonyi
Midfielders: Antal Szalay, István Palotás, György Szűcs, János Moré, Gyula Lázár, János Dudás
Strikers: Imre Markos, István Tamássy, István Avar, Jenő Vincze, Pál Teleki, Géza Toldi, Tibor Kemény, Gábor P. Szabó, György Sárosi, József Turay

On the last day of nomination the following changes were made because of the supporters' and journalists' complains:
Somlai* replacing János Móré
Gyula Polgár replacing József Turay
Sándor Bíró replacing Rezső Rozgonyi

Thus the final, actually travelling squad became the following:
Goalkeepers: József Háda, Antal Szabó
Defenders: József Vágó, László Sternberg, Gyula Futó, Sándor Bíró
Midfielders: Antal Szalay, István Palotás, György Szűcs, Somlay (!!!), Gyula Lázár, János Dudás
Strikers: Imre Markos, István Tamássy, István Avar, Jenő Vincze, Pál Teleki, Géza Toldi, Tibor Kemény, Gábor P. Szabó, György Sárosi, Gyula Polgár (Sárosi was injured, Polgár had university exams so they both arrived later then the rest of the team!)

I marked our man with bold letters! He is the onknown "Rozsonyi". In the reality it was Rezső Rozgonyi, a 1909 born right back who played for Vasas until 1929 then joined Kispest, and he was still a player of Kispest in 1934.

(!!!) Also another mistery: who was Somlay? Only thing I know about him is that he was a player of Kispest and his position was central midfielder. He never played any official games for the national team, but he was capped for Budapest a few times.

So I think the following changes should be made in the 1934 Hungary World Cup Squad according to the Hungarian newspapers of 1934:

- János Moré, József Turay, János Vanicsek should be deleted - Somlay (MF) should be added - The position of Tamássy should be changed to FW - Polgár's position can remain MF, since he played MF, FW and DF as well...

--Gabute 0:27, 9 November 2006 (CET)

[edit] World Cup squads

Hi! About your question, I don't remember well what I did back then in September on the Sweden 1950 World Cup squad. I probably have taken out a few of the players when I edit. If you have a credible source they should be in the squad, you can just add them back. Although I've noticed that a lot of the sources contradict each other for the earlier tournaments.

BTW, who is that Hungarian player "Somlay" in the 1934 World Cup squads? Does he just have one name? Chanheigeorge 00:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Re your message, my only edit to 1950 FIFA World Cup squads was the move from 1950 FIFA World Cup (squads). Conscious 08:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moustafa Kamel Mansour

Hi Libro0. I wouldn't put too much store by the wikipedia article, as I created it 2 days ago. I took the spelling from the Al-Ahly article, where Mansour was listed as a captain and later manager of the club. With so many variations, I thought that a version submitted by a native Arabic speaker (User:Mooo added the information to the Al-Ahly article) was best. Ideally, the article should also have Mansour's name in Arabic - if we get an Arabic speaker to translate, they could also advise if there is a preferred Egyptian translation of Moustafa (ie, Ukrainians don't use the western alphabet but have a preference for Kyiv as the translated name of their capital, rather than Kiev). I might ask User:Anas Salloum as he has translated a previous Arabic footie biography I edited. Caledonian Place 11:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Mr. Cheeky.jpg

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[edit] 1993 Topps

It was a uncontested Prod article, those types of articles should as best be merged or deleted per WP:NOT. Just gives the details of a non-notable year of cards. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I undeleted it restoring all but the prod edit, at best try to merge and redirect all those years into one, that doesn't mean another user can place the article on AFD but it has a better chance than someone mass AFD those articles and getting them deleted. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

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