Talk:Libertarianism (disambiguation)

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[edit] Libertarianism as anarchism

I was about to remove the line about libertarianism as a synonym for anarchism, on the grounds that we already say it in the section on libertarian socialism, but then it occoured to me that some might object that this doesn't account for anarcho-capitalism. Still, I wonder if libertarian is ever used to mean anarcho-capitalists as opposed to minarchists, propertarians, etc. I've never heard it used that way; at least in European usage, libertarian as a synonym for anarchist always carries the connotation of socialist anarchist (of course, "anarchist" carries that connotation too). VoluntarySlave 07:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we could avoid this question, but also avoid the slightly odd apparent disjunction between libertarian socialists, anarcho-capitalists, and anarchists by restructuring the article to make the political meanings sub-points of the

• In politics, libertarianism refers to any of a number of views that emphasize the importance of freedom. In its most absolute form, this focus on freedom would make libertarianism a synonym for anarchism.
  • Before the 1950s, and in non English speaking countries to this day, libertarianism generally refers to specifically left-wing forms of anarchism, known as libertarian socialism. Libertarian socialism is an egalitarian and anti-authoritarian movement that emphasizes collective or cooperative property, anti-capitalism, individual rights and personal freedom.
  • In the English speaking world since the 1950s, libertarianism generally refers to an individualist and capitalist ideology that emphasizes individual rights, including the right to own property, and personal freedom, but may stop short of the anarchist position of a complete rejection of the state. Anarcho-capitalism, which rejects the state, and minarchists, which advocates a minimal state, are both libertarian ideologies in this sense.
  • Civil libertarianism denotes a more general advocacy of personal freedom, regardless of what other political views he or she may hold. The Political compass is notable for using the term libertarianism to refer strictly to support for personal freedom.
• Libertarianism in metaphysics...

I'm not sure where exactly we'd put this link to the list of parties in this scheme. Maybe just after the different meanings? Or in the bit on capitalist libertarianism, as all the parties listed are libertarian in that sense, I think. VoluntarySlave 07:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not just keep it as simplistic as possible? This article should be a disambiguation, but it was starting to look like an essay. "Libertarianism" is simply a synonym for anarchism. That's really all that anyone needs to know. "The principle division in anarchism, also known as libertarianism or antiauthoritarianism, is between social anarchists, who believe in a nonstate form of socialism, and the individualist anarchists, who oppose socialism and favor capitalism or are opposed to any form of social organization whatsoever." Busky, Donald. Democratic Socialism: A Global Survey, Praeger/Greenwood (2000), p. 4 (Rothbard was calling his philosophy "libertartarianism" before the term started being associated with state libertarianism, and was simply using the term interchangeably with anarchism.) "Despite this diversity, we can categorize all anarchists as essentially left-wing libertarians who champion the growth of the individual within a community (Anarcho-Communists, Christian Anarchists, and most Anarcho-Pacifists) and right-wing libertarians (Anarcho-Capitalists, and ultraindividualists) who are most egoistical and stress the individualism of the unregulated marketplace. Since the social ethic of American is not communal but is based on a private world of personal fulfillment and satisfaction (the self-made man, not social man) it is not surprising that what I call right-wing libertarianism was the predominant element of the new, explicit anarchism." DeLeon, David. The American as Anarchist: Reflections on Indigenous Radicalism. John Hopkins University Press, 1978, p. 123Anarcho-capitalism 18:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

It is obviously false to say that libertarianism = anarchism, since many people who describe themselves as "libertarians" are minarchists, not anarchists. -- Nikodemos 23:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

That's why there's a disambiguation page. Different people mean different things by "libertarianism." For some libertarianism = anarchism. For some, libertarianism = libertarian socialism. For some libertarianism = consequentialist libertarianism or classical liberalism. For some, libertarianism = minarchism, etc. Need another source? "For a century anarchists have used the word 'libertarian' as a synonym for 'anarchist', both as a noun and an adjective." Ward, Colin. Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction.Anarcho-capitalism 00:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I never contested the fact that libertarianism was originally a synonym for anarchism (or the fact that many anarchists call themselves libertarians today). I only said that "libertarianism" is no longer used exclusively by anarchists, and that this disambig page should give a short description of every group calling itself "libertarian". -- Nikodemos 00:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with having very short descriptions as long as they're sourced. People were just making stuff up.Anarcho-capitalism 00:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

You seem to have a lot of sources on this topic. Why don't you provide some? I will gladly admit to knowing far less than you do about the use of the word libertarianism. You are more qualified to write the descriptions. -- Nikodemos 00:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)