Talk:Liberal Judaism

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Contents 1 Cut Material 2 Dispute about terminology 3 The names of and within this movement 4 Synonyms

[edit] Cut Material

I've cut the following which originally made up the article (text originally from the soc.culture.jewish FAQ). West London Synagogue began in 1840 - perhaps this was the split the author was thinking of? But it has nothing to do with current Liberal Judaism in the UK, which traces itself back to 1902.

Liberal Judaism is a British term for what is otherwise known as Reform Judaism.

The confusion about the terms "Reform" or "Liberal" comes from a split in England's Reform movement. In 1842 the English Reform movement split into two factions, one of which was more traditional, while the other was more liberal. The more traditional Reform Judaism faction called themselves simply 'Reform'. Their prayer services are much more traditional than the faction that split off, and their laity is in general more observant than the other faction. Thus their prayer services are much like American Conservative shuls and English Masorti shuls, but they still are what in the U.S. is called Reform (i.e. Classical halakha is not considered binding by its rabbinate or laity). The more liberal Reform Judaism faction seceded, and renamed their movement as "Liberal Judaism". They are more in the mode of Classic German Reform. They generally have less Hebrew in their services. Liberal Judaism feels that a Jew should be able to choose which parts of the Jewish law works for them as an individual. They reject the idea that the Torah was given directly to Moses at Mount Sinai, rather that it was given over a period of time. They feel that the Torah is not a divine revelation, rather that it is divinely inspired.

Jheald 18:15, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't that be qualified somewhat.. do liberal jews really believe that thou shalt not kill is a matter of choice? Zargulon 19:32, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dispute about terminology

Please see Talk:Reform Judaism for a discussion of the large problems with terminology, and how to classify our articles on Reform Judaism, Liberal Judaism and Progressive Judaism. RK 17:21, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

In a previous edit to the talk page, subsequently reverted, you made the (fair) point that it was not clear enough which parts of the article were supposed to be about the term "Liberal Judaism" as used worldwide, and which were specific to "Liberal Judaism" in a UK context. I hope this is now clearer, so no grounds remain to tag the article "disputed factual accuracy".

On the question of whether there should be a "Liberal Judaism" aricle at all, separate from the article on "Reform Judaism", I would argue that there should. Liberal Judaism is a distinct and distinctive voice in the general religious dialogue of the UK, and I think that is more than reason enough for it to deserve an article. -- Jheald 02:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC).

Ok, I have thus removed the "disputed" tag. RK

[edit] The names of and within this movement

Are we sure about the name of the Liberal Movement? In the USA the Reform movement has a general name, "Reform Judaism". Yet there is a reform rabbinical body (the Central Conference of American Rabbis) and an association of Tenmples/Synagogues (Union for Reform Judaism, formerly the Union of American Hebrew Congregations.) So what is the name of the body of Liberal rabbis in the UK, and name of the body of Liberal congregations? Or perhaps they have no such formal organizations? (That is possible, but it would be odd.) RK

As mentioned in the article under the sub-paragraph 'organisations' the main umbrella organisation for the Liberal movement in the UK has recently renamed itself "Liberal Judaism", having previously been called the ULPS. Within that organisation, as well as the Officers, the Executive, the Council, etc, there is also an autonomous "Rabbinic Conference of Liberal Judaism", to which all Liberal rabbis are affiliated.

Individual schuls and rabbis pretty much have autonomy to do their own thing; the central organisation's role is to support schuls, not to dictate to them. But statements from the central bodies can often usefully underline very strong consensus agreement across the movement as to how things should be. -- Jheald 20:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC).

I don't think we need two articles on the same group. We have one article for the Union for Reform Judaism, even thought it used to be called the Union of American Hebrew Congregations. We also only have one article for the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, even though it used to be called the United Synagogue of America. The name change doesn't mean that it is a different group. It makes more sense to redirect the ULPS article to here, and add that info to this page. RK

We should note in the article that there is a Rabbinic Conference of Liberal Judaism. Also, is there a name for the group of Liberal shuls? RK 03:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The group of Liberal schuls is what was ULPS and is now Liberal Judaism. The Rabbinic Conference is an autonomous constituent part of that same organisation. (Its office is in the same building). -- Jheald 09:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC).

I agree about ULPS redirect. Zargulon 08:12, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Good. I hadn't wanted to delete what somebody else had created. -- Jheald 09:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Synonyms

It doesn't make sense to have different articles about things that are the same, or have very slight similarities. The ideas that the sects share should be described in an umbrella, and the differences should be voiced. Very few people know the difference, and it should be discribed within an article shared between Progressive, Reform, Liberal, etc. The distinctions are not clear.--Cocopuffberman 23:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)