Talk:Leonard Orban

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You have new messages (last change).
 Leonard Orban is a current good article nominee. If you have not contributed significantly to this article, feel free to evaluate it according to the good article criteria and then pass or fail the article as outlined on the candidates page.

Nomination date: 2007-03-22
Leonard Orban was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

Date of review: 2007-03-15

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Leonard Orban article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Article policies
Peer review Leonard Orban has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
Maintained The following users are actively contributing to this topic and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Michkalas (talk • contribs • email)

[edit] Possible improvements

Michkalas,

  • The lead should probably be expanded somewhat as described in Wikipedia:Lead_section.
  • Both the personal life and career sections should probably be expanded as well, and both need citations.

Beyond that, I'd suggest that you submit it for a peer review. Mocko13 01:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your comments. They have really helped me a lot. I have tried to follow them and improve the article. So now there is an expanded lead section and more details on his personal life and his career. I have added also a few words on his political leanings. For the time being, I have no more English language sources that I could consult -though a better search may provide something more. The EU has announced that Orban will have his own website, but until then probable there are very few things to add from English sources. Some Romanian language sources may help for his earlier carrier. I have asked some Romanian wikipedians for possible Romanian sources, but nothing came out of it. So maybe it is now time to ask for a peer review. --Michkalas 20:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Fail: review and fixes needed

I have unfortunately had to fail this article's good article nomination. While most of the criteria met under good article criteria are being met, there are some serious issues with the images. Specifically, item 6. (c) from the criteria: "any non-free images have a fair use rationale." This article uses several copyrighted images, and there is no rationale given for their use. Please see this link for more information on how to fix this. If these issues can be addressed, please feel free to renominate for GA again. Please note that images are not required to meet good article status, but improperly liscenced images are a problem and should be avoided. As well, please note that wikipedia's fair use policy, as spelled out in the liscencing tags applied to the images in question, both requires a fair use rationale (see link above) and also says that images that merely show what a person looks like is not enough to meet the bare minimum of fair use requirements. Keep this in mind in your changes to this article. If you have any further questions, please see me at my talk page and I will elaborate here as needed. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 03:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

There was a note on my talk page by Michkalas requesting some help in fixing these problems. First of all, two things should be noted about images vis a vis Good Article Status: 1) According to good article criteria, no article needs any images to be promoted to GA, and 2) any images that are present need to meet all requirments for images. To sum up image standards as easily as I can:

  • All images should be free-use images. What free use means (as opposed to fair use, see below) is that the liscence of the image is compatable with the liscencing of Wikipedia, GFDL or Creative Commons. The following are examples of Free Images:
    • Images in the public domain. In the United States, this includes all images produced before 1923, as well as any images whose creator has expressly released them into the public domain. Many images made by U.S. government agencies, for example, are official public domain images.
    • Images that are liscenced by their creator under GFDL or Creative Commons liscences, or which have liscences that are compatable with the above.
    • Images that you, yourself have created and that you have expressly released into the public domain or which you have liscenced under free-use liscences such as GFDL or Creative Commons.
    • By default, any image which is not expressly liscenced as GFDL, Creative Commons, or part of the public domain (whether expressly or by default of being older than 1923) is assumed to be copyright by the images creator, and are not free.
  • Only in cases where no equivalent free image exists, and I cannot stress that enough, a copyright image may be used in lieu of a free image under the guise of "fair use". In order to be considered fair-use:
    • No equivalent free-image exists (in this case, there are no free images of Leonard Orban availible).
    • The image must by of low resolution
    • The use of the image must be solely for the purpose of illustrating an article about the subject of the image (can't be used on talk pages or user pages)
    • The use of the image cannot significantly reduce the value of said image for the copyright holder.
    • An adequate fair use rationale must accompany the image on its talk page. For examples of correct use of fair use rationales, please see WP:FU and WP:IDP and WP:ICT.

So this is a VERY long winded explanation, but I wanted to make sure I hit all of the details. What this means for this article reaching Good Article status is the following:

Option 1) Remove all images. The article is then a good article, since images are not necessary for promotion as a good article
Option 2) Replace all copyrighted images with free or public domain images. A list of places to look for free images can be found at: Wikipedia:Free image resources and Wikipedia:Public domain image resources.
Option 3) Place adequate fair use rationale on the image pages, and you should consider this option only if you have made a good faith effort at finding free images at option 2. See: WP:IDP#Fair use rationale for some examples.

Also, Michkalas requested an article to see how fair use is done on a politician. I did some browsing, and found that Saqib Ali does an OK job with fair use rationale. It isn't formatted exactly right, but it gets the idea. Click each picture in the article, and see the image description page where it does spell out a rationale for using a copyright image. Honestly it was hard for me to find a good article using copyright images with fair-use rationale, since most Good Articles used free images. Nearly all photographs taken by government entities are released into the public domain, so any national or international politician SHOULD have a plethora of free or public domain images availible. This is definately true in the U.S.; I have no idea on how this works in Romania or in the E.U, but I would speculate that for a politician of this level, free or public domain images exist somewhere. Good luck, and if you have any further questions, please feel free to see me at my talk page --Jayron32|talk|contribs 03:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your detailed and useful comments on the fixes needed. I believe that the fair use rationale is now OK. I have followed your comments, but as there is not an other fully equivalent example I had to improvise a little. One point of concern is that in fact I do not know if these photos should be considered "low resolution" (probably not) and, in any case, their resolution is not reduced from the original (I have noted in the images description that this is not possible, but I am not sure if this is correct). In any case, any possible profits of the copyright holder cannot be hearted as the photos can be used for free, according to his legal notice. It seems that, according to their legal notice, the EU institutions, though they do not "release the photos in the public domain" like the US government, hold the copyright, but allow to use/publish them for free. So, when you have time, take a look and tell me if everything is OK and, since there doesn't seem to be any other problems, I would renominate it for GA.--Michkalas 13:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
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