Talk:Leningrad (disambiguation)
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In English, if you say Leningrad, you're going to think of St Petersburg, not of Leningrad Oblast. If you look at the links, virtually every one of them is for St Petersburg. We only use a disambiguation page if the different topics have roughly equal importance (in English, for en.wikipedia.org). -- Walt Pohl 15:41, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
"Leningrad" is no longer used by anyone to refer to Saint Petersburg, not in English and not even in Saint Petersburg. So it is not like everyone who types "Leningrad" expects to be redirected to that city. On the contrary, they are likely to want to see precisely the explanation of when this name was relevant, not buried deep in the Saint Petersburg page. Also, since "Leningrad" is still currently the name of a Russian region, Leningrad Oblast, it makes sense to link to that to. Anyway, this is my opinion, but I won't engage in an edit war - I won't be reverting "Leningrad" any more, so please think carefully before you blank it and replace it by a redirect. Nyh 20:16, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- In a disambig. page the information should be as concise as possible. Then the user makes a choice and sees the detail in the respective article. And, have you heard about the Find feature all browsers have? The user will search for 'Leningrad' in the respective article and will find what it needs. Even my grandmother knows this. --Cantus 22:50, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- People, when they hear Leningrad, they will think of Soviet-era St. Petersburg. Leningrad oblast, on the other hand, is pretty obscure. I never heard of it before today, or example. -- Walt Pohl 21:58, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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- I think Cantus's "concise" version is less clear than the previous version, which looked more like something you'd expect to find in an encyclopedia. Besides, repeating one line of relevant information on Wikipedia is not a sin - "wiki is not paper". Hypertext (the concept behind wikipedia) and "the find button" are conflicting concepts, and we shouldn't rely on the Find button where links do a better job. And though Leningrad Oblast is "obscure", it certainly exists, while a city called "Leningrad" no longer does. Ok, that has been my opinion. But I will shut up now :-) Nyh 08:48, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I tried to make it a bit clearer myself, indicating the primary meaning in English (according to language guidelines at the WP:MOS). --Fastfission 02:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
As someone born there, I testify that both the city and the oblast meanings can be attached to "Leningrad" even today, that the city has been renamed. BTW, the region is still called "Leningrad Oblast". Depending on conversational context and circumstances, people can still mean either of the two. Kudos to Nyh for getting both meanings on the disambig. page.
On the other hand, the cowboys and the siege can't be referred to when somebody just says "Leningrad", AFAIU. So I have just demoted them into a newly-created "See also" section. --BACbKA 22:30, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree strongly with User:Nyh and User:Waltpohl's claim that nobody refers to the city by this old name anymore. I just dabbed 15 links to this page, and every one of them refers to an event that occurred in Leningrad when it had that name. Leningrad should redirect to Saint Petersburg, and the dab content should be at Leningrad (disambiguation). --Smack (talk) 23:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- I see where you're coming from, although in many cases, Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7 can be referred to as "the Leningrad Symphony". I'm personally of the opinion that the current style of disambiguation works well for this subject. --Chrisd87 22:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Just my two cents
Although Leningrad is no longer the official name of the city, the city is still very often referred to by this name in historical contexts. Thus, when I read or write something like "It happened in Leningrad in 1951" or "He was born in Leningrad in 1931" or something similar, I think primarily of the city and not of something else such as the oblast. (And certainly not of an asteroid, band, or symphony.) It would indeed be sensible if the word could be simply wiki-linked in all these contexts as [[Leningrad]], without bothering about bypassing the disambig page.
And indeed when you read something like "it was well-known in Leningrad" or "he studied in Leningrad" or "his grandparents were buried in Leningrad" or anything like that – even without the dates – does not everyone, whether English- or Russian-speaking, think instantly of the city first, and not of any other meaning? Whether you want it or not, the primary meaning of this word is still the city. -- 131.111.8.102 03:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed. Would you agree that this page should redirect to St. Petersburg? --Smack (talk) 20:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
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- I personally would think that Leningrad should redirect to St. Petersburg, and a disambiguation page created at Leningrad (disambiguation), as you have suggested above. The St. Petersburg page then will carry the customary notice at the top "Leningrad redirects here, for other meanings see disambig. etc. etc." After all Petrograd redirects to St. Petersburg currently. But I do not have very strong opinions about this, if someone objects I am not going to pick a fight. 131.111.8.104 19:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
