User talk:Lemonhead

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Dear Latebird,

I saw your crusade to protect your relative Miyeegombo Enkhbold. According to wikipedia policy it is prohibited to write about your relative. Lemonhead 14:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Miyeegombo Enkhbold Hi, glad I found someone who is interested in political figures. I need a second (or third) opinion on the current prime minister of Mongolia. Care to comment there? --Latebird 22:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. But I suspect User:Lemonhead needs some direct admin intervention before he stops his crusade. --Latebird Sorry I have to bother again. Unfortunately the issue has turned into the beginning of an edit war (sources vs. opinion) and I am subjected to personal attacks both in edit summaries and talk. My warnings and arguments have fallen on deaf ears. Now I need at least one other person trying to talk reasonably with User:Lemonhead, as a basis for more formal steps against him. Thanks for any help you can give! --Latebird 12:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. --Latebird 17:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Be careful: An important message - PLEASE READ

Please be extremely careful when adding in information that it does not involve defamation (if you don't know what defamation is, read this). Comments that defame an individual may leave you open to being sued by them. Your status here, whether as a signed on user or as an anonymous IP, would not protect you. Someone you defame could get a court order instructing your server to supply your details to them. They could then sue you for damages. Remember, while Section 230 of the United States Communications Decency Act protects Wikipedia from being sued for defamation, it may not protect the person who posted any defamation on a Wikipedia page.

Furthermore the Board of Wikipedia has ruled that Where the user has been vandalising articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, [personal information] data may be released to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers. (Full information on Wikipedia privacy policy here)

This box has been placed on your talk page because another Wikipedian suspects that, perhaps innocently, you may have defamed someone in your contributions. Please recheck your edits. Do not make allegations against someone unless you have verifiable, independently-sourced evidence. Don't rely on hear-say, rumours, or things you believe without proof to be facts. Wikipedia requires sources for all claims.

If you have defamed someone, you may be blocked without warning from editing Wikipedia. If you find that you have inadvertently defamed someone in an article, do two things:
1. Remove the defamation from the article immediately.
2. Hit this link and leave a note on that page saying that you accidentially left defamatory claims in named article. (Don't repeat the claims. They will be able to see from your edit removing them what they were.) A developer will then delete the claim from the page history

Once that is done, and the defamation is gone completely from our records, the problem should be solved.

--Latebird 17:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I highly doubt that Latebird is a relative of Miyegombo Enkhbold. There are many disputes on Wikipedia where people remove negative information about people, and we rarely assume something like that, unless there is proof, which has not been shown in this case. There is still plenty of negative information about Enkhbold in his article, Latebird and I are simply making sure that the view on him is balanced. We were making progress in resolving the dispute, so please stop the personal attacks and we can continue working on the article. Academic Challenger 00:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Academic Challenger, I also try to edit article for facts. Why do you think I am making personal attacks? The first person who is claiming and talking badly about Lemonhead is Latebird. If Academic Challenger, you think you are a good editor, why are you siding with Latebird talking we? You are POV yourself. So you can't be good editor. Why Latebird is covering up negative facts of Miyeegombo Enkhbold in favor of Miyeegombo Enkhbold and try to defame Democratic Party people including Mendsaikhan Enkhsaikhan by reportedly editing the text to look him bad/ Lemonhead 14:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Though Latebird has criticized your edits, your attacks on him are much worse than his on you. He has never claimed that you are a relative or employee of Elbegdorj. You have made good edits to the article but after carefully looking at many versions of the article it still seems to me that Latebird has made the article more neutral while continuing to keep many negative facts about Enkhbold in the article. By the way, when you respond on my talk page please put comments on the bottom of the section, not the top. Thanks. Academic Challenger 23:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Academic Challenger,

I researched on your edits and found out that you like positions of people in politics. There is smaller commonality between you and user Latebird that you both like positions. I observed from your edits that you both focus mostly on positions, titles of people such as deputy president, prime minister, chairman of department so on. I focus on the outcomes of people's work and deed to society to other people rather than their position. I guess our difference begins from here. Therefore, we are arguing a lot.

Academic Challenger, you first created article in wikipedia on Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj after he became prime minister and there are hundreds of edits by people since that time. But your own created article about Elbegdorj, he "made revolution by standing on chair" doesn't sound realistic. I don't think revolution is so tiny or easy as simply done by talking from standing on chair. You didn't cite that and your POV begins from there. But it looks like that text long been changed since. If you see revolution history, you will see what I mean.

About your suggestion that I am a relative or employee of Elbegdorj, Hallalouya!! I wish I were but unfortunately not. I want to become an apprentice of Elbegdorj if it is possiible and to learn from him doing lots of great works to society in the shortest period of time especially his speed. If he or his office ever reads this, or anyone who knows how to approach him please advise me for how to apply. I consider Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj is a living legend and since nobody today has a chance to be a student from other legends such as Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon Bonaparte.

For Miyeegombo Enkhbold's case, his work has lots of controversies towards society from land related corruption to illegally overthrowing Elbegdorj's government and took the prime minister's position. However, Academic Challenger and Latebird it looks like you both love the position of him rather than what he did to people as forcing poor families to leave their land with arrogance using his position only. Therefore, whoever, keeps deleting the facts no matter whether it is negative or positive, that person should have a reason.

That is what I meant. Lemonhead 16:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I realize that I need to work on writing more about the outcomes of what people did rather than just their positions and I am trying to work on that. I know that Elbegdorj did not make the revolution by standing on a chair. I only read about it in a news article that came out when he became prime minister, and I thought it was interesting so I put it in. I am glad that many people have expanded it. That is after all, the point of Wikipedia. However, if I was writing that article today, now that I am older and more experienced I would have written it better. I know that Enkhbold is very controversial and the more I read about him the more I don't like him. Much of our argument is about the formatting of the article and how much comments should be put into the article about his actions as opposed to just facts. I have no problem with the fact that he made poor families leave their land being in the article, and I don't think Laebird does either since he hasn't removed things like that in a long time. However, saying that Enkhbold is a horrible corrupt person for doing that is not necessary. Readers should judge that for themselves. Most politicians have done controversial things which is just as bad or worse and they do not have that tone in their articles. Academic Challenger 21:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

1 Multiple accounts
2 Retaliatory activities in german language Wikipedia
3 Continuing our discussion
4 Final Warning
5 Mongol Religion
6 Your e-mail
7 Images deleted
8 Your german User account Condor-tas
9 Mongols
10 Central Asia

[edit] Multiple accounts

Please stop using sockpuppets in an attempt to give more weight to your opinions. You may have thought that nobody would notice, but your rather characteristic communication style and editing patterns make it very obvious. You have been using at least two dozen different accounts in the recent past. This is highly frowned upon on Wikipedia, and may get you permanently blocked from editing. --Latebird 09:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Latebird,

Please don't bring your personal grudge against me. Everybody has freedom to express their opinions and sockpuppets are allowed in the wikipedia. I will continue to contribute my opinions at wikipedia. If you try to block me, I will bring personal lawsuit against you at International Arbitration. Lemonhead 20:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Please do not make legal threats against other editors. See WP:NLT for more info. Friday (talk) 22:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello again Lemonhead. I thought we were making progress in resolving disputes about Mongolian politics, but it seems that the edit wars are starting again. Here are a few points. 1. I saw your request for arbitration against Latebird, which has been removed by another admin. Latebird is not yet an admin and probably will not be for a long time because he does not have enough edits. In order to be an admin you need to have an extra improvement by the community. I, on the other hand, am an admin. 2. I reverted your edit to Nambaryn Engbayer. Perhaps there should be something in the article about him and his role in the Russian debt, but trying to make a general opinion for what all Mongolians believe is not encyclopedic. As you keep talking about democracy and freedom, you know that the reason that is necessary is that not everybody in every country agrees with the same opinion. Strange as it may seem, there is probably a large section of the Mongolian population which still supports Engbayer, Enkhbold and the MPRP.

3. You have admitted using soc-puppets. While you may not be blocked for it at this time, it does nothing to help your case and may end up ruining your reputation on this site, so I would advise that you would be better off editing with this account only, at least on Mongolian issues. Academic Challenger 06:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, please stop claiming that Latebird is related to Enkhbold. You have no evidence for this, and just because you think it makes sense does not mean it is true that you will be able to convince other people. You are better off trying to argue about the content you are adding. Academic Challenger 06:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Academic Challenger,

Thank you for your answer in my discussion page.

1. If Latebird is not admin, Hallelujah! that's justice. I hope he will not become one if he continues to threaten people to suppress other people's voice and cover up facts in favor of his relative's reputation. Please tell me how Latebird's name appeared in wikipedia welcome page for user Sansar User_talk:Sansar. Because of this page, I thought he got the adminship although I didn't find in the English wikipedia admin list although I didn't check in German wikipedia admin list.

2. Nambaryn Enkhbayar is the correct name. Not Engbayer. I will edit it back because it was not a thought, it is a fact. I saw you also deleted Latebird's comments from the discussion page of Nambaryn Enkhbayar article.

You said "Strange as it may seem, there is probably a large section of the Mongolian population which still supports Engbayer, Enkhbold and the MPRP." I agree with that for Enkhbayar and MPRP case only, but not Enkhbold's case. Last news I read about Mongolia in Mongolian newspaper channel is Enkhbold's leading MPRP sent police against civil demonstrations, strikes and picketing which demand his government's resignation at Sukhbaatar square. Police has been smashing protestors' dwelling to picket. [1], [2] MPRP also organized con-demonstrators against civil demonstrations. Con-demonstrated demonstrated only 1 hour and who admitted being paid $4 per hour to demonstrate on behalf of MPRP against civil demonstrations. [3]

3. Yes, I admitted using soc-puppet which is DokDok because I couldn't have accessed to edit Nambaryn Enkhbayar article in the internet, so, I quickly created a Dokdok username to edit qucikly, because I was in a hurry. It is not purposefully used against something. I realize that you felt cheated, but that's not the case. I am an honest person, therefore, I admitted to use another account to Latebird. Otherwise, I should have written "no no no" as unmoraled selfish, many faced, corrupted MPRP people.

I agree with you about reputation. I believe in God, and I have guts and morale. I haven't done anything illegal, or I haven't written anything violating wikipedia rules such as vandalism. Therefore, there is no reason for wikipedia to block my edition as Latebird claimed.

4. My findings in internet search is user Latebird is a son of Miyeegombo Enkhbold, Mongolia's corrupted Prime Minister of non-military junta government. User Latebird studies in Canberra, Australia with Australian scholarship which he acquired through his father's connections. He attended some studies in Germany before.

Also, Latebird created and edited Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj's article in German wikipedia[4], which looks like containing false information by the date, I can tell, to negate Tsakhiagiyn Elbegdorj and to uprise Miyeegombo Enkhbold. He also wrote false positive article about Miyeegombo Enkhbold [5] in German wikipedia as he got Master's degree in 1987 in communist Mongolia where Master's degree was not issued until after 1995.

5. I always try to argue about content. However, out of nowhere, Latebird, suddenly began to threaten to block my edition in wikipedia without connecting to any edition of my article. Therefore, for that purpose I submitted request.

Thanks. Lemonhead 21:49, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Retaliatory activities in german language Wikipedia

For the record: Lemonhead has now started to spread the same unfounded lies about me in the german language Wikipedia under the username de:Benutzer:Condor-tas. He doesn't seem to speak a single word of German. All the same, he decided to add {{POV}} tags to the articles about de:Tsachiagiin Elbegdordsch and de:Mijeegombyn Enchbold, which clearly lack any justification. I won't remove them myself, though, but rather ask an admin there to look into the situation. --Latebird 23:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Latebird, I can prove it. I know internet coding, and computer for a while and I made a profound search and that's true you are Miyeegombo Enkhbold's son and you are in Australia. Of course, your real name is not Latebird, since there is no such real name in Mongolia. (I've been to Mongolia many times in last few years because my father has Kalmyk Mongolian origin and we love Mongolia.)

In German wikipedia, I got Condor-Tas as my username, my user page Condor-Tas explains I am Lemonhead in English wikipedia. Because the lemonhead was already taken in German when I got the username. What's wrong with it?

Latebird, you wrote to negate de:Tsachiagiin Elbegdordsch and elevate de:Mijeegombyn Enchbold with lies in those articles, I can tell by the words I can understand and by the wrong dates. Therefore, I put {POV} sign over there and explained my reason in the relative discussion pages. Why are you complaining in my discussion page as if I did a crime? I know what I did and I already explained in those discussion pages. Please don't bring your POV to wikipedia.

I want Mongolian society to develop and as a social philosopher, I have been reading everything possible about Mongolia's social and political life lately. In my advantage, I know Mongolian and read all Mongolian newspapers. Both you and me know as other Mongolians the truth that MPRP leaders present mostly lies in foreign language news about what they are doing and talk and act but inform total opposite in Mongolian language. So, why don't you want to put the facts in the article about their actions of the people rather put your own POV to negate Elbegdorj-the democrat and to elevate Enkhbold-the MPRP chair. This is a shame on you, Latebird because all the rest of the people who are interested in the topics can do more research. Remember, the event is happening in Mongolia and the most untwisted truth comes from the resources where people write what they see with their own eyes and those resources are mostly Mongolian newspapers.

Lemonhead 18:30, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Continuing our discussion

Welcoming users is not an admin task. Any user can welcome a user to Wikipedia, including you. I did not delete anyone's comments from a talk page, and if I did it was an accident. I'm osorry about spelling the names of some of the politicians in my messages wrong, I will be more carefull in the future. Where exactly are you getting this information about Latebird being Enkhbold's son? Latebird is obviously not his real name, and how would you know what it is? I don't know if he is an admin on the German Wikipedia, but that does not matter for affairs on the English Wikipedia. I am going to remove at least part of your edit on the President again because much of the new information is unproven and the rest is not presented in an NPOV way. Academic Challenger 01:27, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Academic Challenger,

I know internet coding, and computer for a while and I made a profound search and that's true Latebird is Miyeegombo Enkhbold's son and he is in Australia. Of course, your real name is not Latebird, since there is no such real name in Mongolia. (I've been to Mongolia many times in last few years because of my father's Kalmyk Mongolian origin and we love Mongolia.)

I wish you could read Mongolian newspapers in Mongolian. The information I provided are facts and I put the links. Why don't you edit what you consider NPOV instead of deleting the whole thing? Lemonhead 18:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Lemonhead, Happy Easter. I still don't believe that Latebird is really Enkhbold's son, but we will have to keep disagreeing on that. I think that what you say about the MPRP and how many people keep supporting them because they always have, is probably true. However, the same thing can be said about political parties in many other countries, including arguably the United States to a lesser extent, and the type of information you added is still not accepted into articles. Articles may say that a certain person is accused of corruption, but they can't say that people are trying to destroy democracy or that they are hated by the whole country without serious evidence. Perhaps there is evidence of this in Mongolian language, but because this is the English Wikipedia we have to wait until this is published in English newspapers. Sometime tonight when I have more time I will NPOV your edit to the President's article and make a compromise version like I did for Prime Minister Enkhbold. However, several people have criticized your version on the talk page, or believed that parts of it were not true. Most importantly, I still don't think you should give a general opinion of what all Mongolians believe. You compared the situation to Americans and Bush. It would never be good to say "Americans support a certain thing." I am against Bush, but even if 80% of Americans vote for Democrats in the next elections, you still cannot say "Americans hate Bush." Perhaps a compromise could be saying Many Monglians want the President to resign. As for your problem with Latebird, you should probably try to leave him alone for now, and don't claim that he is Enkhbold's son anymore. Even if you seem to have found evidence of this you could be mistaken. I think if he is really Enkhbold's son he would have taken even more bad information out of his article. Academic Challenger 21:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Academic Challenger,

Thank you. I just saw your edit. You did a wonderful job for editing as NPOV for the Nambaryn Enkhbayar article. I think you are one of the best editors in English wikipedia.

Similar events of demonstrations are happening both in Nepal and in Mongolia demanding the resignation of Nepalese king and Mongolia's president & government, however, international news is covering only Nepal. When some more developments come up in English news about Mongolia and the object, may be we continue to extend the article. I agree with you over that.

About phrasing the expression of others I also agree with you.

About Latebird, on February 24 he kept posting false elevated paragraphs about Miyeegombo Enkhbold and kept deleting negative facts about him. I reverted that several times in Miyeegombo Enkhbold article. You went in and changed the article into NPOV, I think. From that I try to begin to see the logic of Latebird's these actions. Perhaps he meant well, but it was not logical to keep posting not logical data about Miyeegombo Enkhbold as he got Master's degree in 1987 when the timing and place was impossible, and conflicting dates and tons of different positions which he kept changing in the article for Enkhbold's early careers etc. About his location, I found it from my search. In general, I don't care whoever Latebird is. Only thing is I want wikipedia not to contain false info, therefore, I began to contribute for accuracy of articles about things that I found conflicting comparing to other sources. Finally, I wish Latebird well. Lemonhead 22:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Lemonhead, thanks for your comments. I have been researching more about Mongolia and it was very interesting to learn how little events there are covered in the English language press compared to some other countries like Nepal, France and Israel. From now on I will try not to revert your edits and will edit your additions for NPOV instead, and hopefully as you continue editing you will become used to writing in the NPOV style. I am glad that you will stop your argument with Latebird now. Anyway, he has not edited the articles on Mongolian politicians in a long time accept relating to the images. Academic Challenger 01:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Final Warning

A serious message - PLEASE READ

Wikipedia operates on the principle that every contributor has a right if they wish to remain completely anonymous. Wikipedia policy on that issue is strictly enforced. Posting private information about a user, specifically their (alleged) name and/or personal details, is strictly prohibited as harassment, and users who do that are often immediately blocked from editing Wikipedia.

Such posting can cause offence or embarrassment to the victim of the posting, not least because it means that their name, and any personal criticism or allegations made against them can then appear on web searches. If you have posted such information, please remove it immediately. Please then follow the link to this page and inform people there that the information was posted (but crucially, do not repost it on that page). An admin or developer can then remove the information from the archives of Wikipedia.

If you do not ensure that personal information you posted is removed from this site you may be blocked from editing this site. REMEMBER: Wikipedia's privacy policy is there to protect the privacy of every user, including you.

Examples: [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], and right now [13]

And just as a preventive measure: Do not copy warnings you receive back to the sender's talk page. Doing so will be considered vandalism. --Latebird 02:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

User Latebird, I meant warning to you because you libeled and tried to spy on me, and therefore, your putting this sign on my page is unreasonable. Is this warning sign referring to your attempted oppression or hurt? Lemonhead 20:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mongol Religion

That's interesting. I figured Mongol Christians would be some Buryats in Russia, as opposed to the Khalkhas in the mainland. But I think the late pope's planned visit to Mongolia would be to encourage a grass-roots Christian community there. The power of the Vatican or any other worldwide system would certainly-in my mind- take the time to visit any seeding offshoot, no matter how insignificant. It deeply disturbs me that Christian imperialism (Baptists and newly-competitive, jealous Catholics) has penetrated even the deepest core of Buddhist lands. I'm sure other wikipedians would also like you to help more with the page on religion in Mongolia. Take care. Le Anh-Huy 04:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your e-mail

I received your e-mail. The photograph in question was tagged {{CopyrightedFreeUse}}, which can only be used for images that have been explicitly released for any use by the photographer. As there was no indication that the image had been released under that license, I had no choice but to delete. Please be aware that Wikipedia copyright policy is considerably more stringent than many websites, so the fact that an image appears in multiple places on the web doesn't mean we can use it. Thanks. Chick Bowen 23:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images deleted

Hi there, the image I believe you are refering to was tagged as {{CopyrightedFreeUse}}. The site linked to as the source does not assert this in any way shape or form, and I deleted it as a copyvio/incorrect license. You can re-upload the file with a fair use rationale, and that should suffice, if there is no free alternative. If you have any questions, let me know. Thanks. --light darkness ^(talk) 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your german User account Condor-tas

For your information: Your german User account Condor-tas has now been blocked indefinetly for continued defamation --Gunter.krebs 16:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Defamation of whom? I only wrote about the biased article Miyeegombo Enkhbold in German in its discussion page. Your decision is not fair and I will complain about it. Lemonhead 16:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)