Talk:Legal drinking age

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[edit] Attilitus's Overhaul

Alright... I am going to rip this article apart. If anyone doesn't like the end result feel free to revert all edits.

To name a few changes I am going to:

  • Remove the "De-Facto" section and merge content into notes. (It is useless to have both and the distinction between the two is not at all evident.
  • Separate the legal "drinking" age table from the legal "purchasing" age. (I contend that it would be best to remove the entire premise of the purchasing age, but if we are going to have it we must at the very least make the table look presentable.
  • Add sections on the merits of a higher legal drinking age versus the potential downfalls and age descrimination that can also be the result.
  • My Opinion: I honestly have none and will try and give equal weight to all views involved. However, I find that the best arguments for a higher drinking age is that a higher legal drinking age statistically reduces underage drinking and alcohol abuse. On the other hand a legal drinking age is clearly age discrimination.

I do not know when I am going to get around to working on this article, but I figured that I would post a few things that I am planning to do to both inform all of you and potentially "urge" another reading user to contribute the changes I propose before I get around to it. (Would save me some time) --Attilitus 21:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aztec tidbit

i'm short on time right now, but maybe someone could a tidbit about the aztec legal drinking age of 70. more info @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage#History

[edit] Accuracy?

Hm, I'm a little unsure about the accuracy of some of the claims here. Firstly, I'm pretty sure Germany has a dual age limit - that's fine, I've fixed it, but how many others are wrong? I'm not sure about "16 for beer or cider in restaurants" in the UK - I thought it was much stricter, like "a glass of beer or wine with a meal, with adults" or something; but I could be wrong.

And as for the claim that asking for ID in the UK is rare, what utter tosh! Selling alcohol to someone under 18 is punishable by severe fines, so you betcha people get ID'd - in general, a club or busy pub is going to do that at the door, while a shop or quiet bar will do it when they ask for the drink. Again, fine, fixed now; but I can't confirm or deny the same claim made about Japan - anyone?

Finally, the line "Poland: No minimum age (though one must be over 18 to buy alcohol legally)" points to something rather odd about this list - it's rather unclear whether we're talking about buying alcohol, or drinking it; I think the list could do with some revision to clarify which applies in each case. In the case of the UK, the law states that it is illegal to sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under the age of 18 (it's also, incidentally, illegal to sell alcohol unsupervised if you are under 18); I've no idea what it says about actually drinking the stuff. And after all, it's when you buy it that you're going to get asked for your ID - the can of beer isn't going to ask you.

Generally, I think this article's in need of a bit of "tightening up". But, you know, it's a start - oaks from acorns and all that. - IMSoP 16:36, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am 99% sure that the Dutch legal limit for the purchase of alcohol is 16 rarther than 18, as I visited the country recently and saw it on several signs outside places selling alcohol and on vending machines that sell alcohol, but decided not to edit the information as was not 100% sure

I believe the legal drinking age in Denmark has been changed to 16 years (in stores). Can anyone confirm this? 62.107.53.135

[edit] Is it getting worse?

Since IMSoP's original post on the problem last November, the list has only gotten worse for its lack of focus. I was thinking of modifying to look something like this:

Country Legal drinking age Legal purchasing age
Hong Kong 18
Portugal No minimum age 18 (16 for beer and wine)

Any suggestions or comments? - Lucky13pjn 03:40, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

I believe is more like this:

Country Legal drinking age Legal purchasing age
Hong Kong 18
Portugal 16 18 (16 for beer and wine)

but I'm not sure. 81.193.20.141 10:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] China

The list says that 'China' has no minimum drinking age, but the 'Republic of China' does. If there is some subtlety here, the list doesn't explain it. However, I suspect it's just a mistake. Can someone who has knowledge here clarify the article? Thanks Andrewferrier 23:19, 2004 Dec 30 (UTC)

When I first started the list, I based the whole thing (except Canada) on the external link. Based upon most people's edits, that external link is quite wrong, so go ahead and change it. I doubt that it will be any more wrong than before if it is.--Lucky13pjn 18:37, Dec 31, 2004 (UTC)
The difference is between the People's Republic of China (commonly referred to as "China") and the Republic of China (commonly referred to as "Taiwan"). I've moved "China" in the list to "People's...", since technically "China" is a geographical, not a political, entity. If the list still seems unclear, feel free to improve on my edit. - IMSoP 18:13, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 5!?!

According to the article: "*United Kingdom: 18; 16 for beer or cider in restaurants; 5 in private, with adults " 5! Seriously. Are we sure this isn't 15? A.K.A.47

Quite sure - see [1]. --Thf1977 18:00, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Why don't they say "Legal alcohol drinking age"?

For the UK, its illegal for under 18's to purchase and/or drink any alcohol in public. Read - [2] and scroll down to "What does the law say?" section.

In regards to the 5 in private, this is supposed to prevent parents being incriminated from their children simply finishing the bottom of a Pint.

And because parents should be free to choose what goes on in their own home. I remember being given a (small) glass of wine every Christmas since I was about 6.

It is 5 at home - but what gets me is this line

The legal age to drink alcohol in a pub (outside the strictly-defined bar area) is 5, provided they are accompanied by a parent who buys it for them.

As far as I know, this is in no way true - otherwise the restaurant bit (aged 16) wouldn't apply further down the article? Can someone clarify this for me.

I did my BIIA back in 2003 (before the new licensing laws came into effect) and the age limit to drink (Beer, Wine, Perry or Cider) with a meal was five with parents and 16 without, the reason why I haven't edited it is because I can't find a cite for this (although it is in my course documents) and I don't know if it still law with the new regulations that have come into play. Davdos 20:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria of LDA and the Finnish LDA

Having noticed that User:213.250.116.230 changed the Finnish LDA from "no minimum LDA" to 18, I would like to reopen discussion first started by IMSoP on how we should define legal drinking age. Legislation seems to vary a lot from country to country, and I think we should try to define some kind of common criteria. I propose that we would state that there is a minimum LDA only if legislation clearly mentions the act of drinking, consumption or use, and that we equate possession age with purchase age. If it seems that on most countries the law doesn't explicitly mention drinking, but it is otherwise clearly stated that there is a LDA, then we should reconsider this criteria.

[edit] Finnish LDA

Based on criteria I proposed and the following references, I argue that the there is no minimum legal drinking age in Finland.

Neither (2) or (3) contain any mention that drinking alcohol while underage would be illegal. On the other hand, purchase and possession of alcoholic drinks is clearly forbidden from minors. (To be exact, buying alcohol is not forbidden for minors, but selling to minors is. A successful purchase by a minor would - naturally - immediately result in possession, thus effectively making buying also illegal.) Therefore, drinking while under age is de jure legal. It is true that most Finns, including most of the police officers, think that minors shouldn't drink. Also, the cases where a minor could drink alcohol without first possessing it, are quite rare, perhaps the toasting in parties earlier mentioned in the article would be a good example. These considerations would make underage drinking illegal de facto. But as I proposed, we should concentrate on de jure.

What comes to offering drink to a minor, the situation is reversed. Offering is de jure illegal according to Alcohol law, 31 §. Additionally, criminal law, section 43, 7 §, makes it illegal "to seduce a person under 18 into drinking that results in intoxication". However, many parents try to teach their kids more civilized european drinking habits by letting them consume small amounts of alcohol at home, and according to (1) mentioned sections of law have been rarely enforced. Abovementioned toasting at parties is also a common practice. As this article is not about offering, we could simply ignore this subject.

There is a proposal by the government (1) undergoing legislative process, that would make it de jure legal to offer reasonable amounts of alcohol to a minor. Logically this would also result in more explicitly saying that the act of drinking alcohol while under age is quite legal. This paper also includes a comparison to Swedish and Norwegian laws, and verifies that there is no minimum LDA in Sweden. It doesn't explicitly say anything about Norwegian MLDA. Perhaps Norwegians should check if there is a similar de jure/de facto clash as there is in Finland.

-- SGJ 8 July 2005 13:27 (UTC)

Where in the new law does it say that it is de jure legal to offer some amounts of alcohol to people under 18? I speak finnish, but I cant find it, but I think it has always been de jure legal to offer alcohol at home to minors? But would the new law make it legal to offer alcohol in bars to minors in some amounts or? //Martin 22december 2005
The current law doesn't explicitly say anything about offering. Alcohol law, 31 §, says: (from Finlex) Alkoholijuoman välittäminen palkkiota vastaan on kielletty, jollei tästä laista tai sen nojalla annetuista säännöksistä muuta johdu. Alkoholijuoman välittäminen on kielletty myös ilman palkkiota henkilöille, joille 16 §:n mukaan ei saa myydä alkoholijuomia. People that are for strict underage drinking ban interpret that this makes it de jure illegal, those wanting to teach civilized drinking say that this makes offering de facto legal. It's all about the verb välittää (my dictionary says: välittää v, 1. siirtää, ohjata. convey, communicate (~ to sb), pass, pass on, transmit (~ sth to sb), relay 2. act as intermediary, 3. supply (~ (sb with sth)), provide 4. arrange) being so vague. It can mean any giving, or only a situation where one has acquired alcohol for the sole purpose of giving it to a minor. Now it seems that the latter faction is going to win in the new law. As I said earlier, for a long time it has been in practice allowed to serve reasonable amount of alcohol to minors at home, but not if the law is strictly interpreted. Extreme cases have been punished as an assault. (Assault is broadly defined in Finland; it is, for example, an assault to make one unconscious, regardless of means.) In a famous case, a 12-year old was given so much Koskenkorva that he passed out. Supreme Court considered this to be an assault ([[3]]), rather than a seduction of a minor to drink alcohol or abovementioned välittäminen.
Proposed text of the new law (from Finlex):
Joka tahallaan
...
5) tarjoaa alle kahdeksantoistavuotiaalle alkoholijuomaa tai väkiviinaa niin, että tämä siitä juopuu ja tarjoamista voidaan alaikäisen ikä, kypsyysaste ja muut olosuhteet huomioon ottaen kokonaisuudessaan pitää moitittavana,
...
on tuomittava, jollei teosta muualla laissa säädetä ankarampaa rangaistusta, alkoholirikkomuksesta sakkoon.
This seems to be some sort of compromise. It would make offering punishable only if it leads in intoxication, and is also a very blameworthy act. Explanation text of the proposal additionally says: Hyväksyttävänä voidaan pitää sitä, että lapselle osana kasvatusta kodin piirissä tarjotaan alkoholia esimerkiksi aterian yhteydessä., translation (by me): It is seen acceptable to serve alcohol to a child at home, as a part of parenting, for example in a meal.
Selling alcohol to underage people, even in small amounts, would remain illegal - so no bars :-) What about some adult buying a drink at a bar and then offering it to a kid, I hear you asking. This particular situation is even more vague. It is interpreted to be illegal (see [[4]]), but this is not based on law - it is a interpretation made by National Product Control Agency for Welfare and Health of a decree issued by Minister of Social Affairs and Health. Propably nobody knows how this will be in the future. SGJ 19:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

So It would be Legal to "tarjoaa" alcohol in small amount to people under 18? I'm from Finland, I know that many parents usually try to teach their childs good alcohol habits, so that they would learn to drink alcohol home and not at the streets, so i'm quite stunned over the fact that there is actually laws on that? Or is it only a formality? //User:Dr.Poison

[edit] A new column?

I was noticing the addition of notes to certain countries regarding special exceptions and whatnot. Would a new column or two be useful? Here is an example:

Country De jure De Facto Notes
Purchase drinking age

- Lucky13pjn 19:56, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. We could also add de jure/de facto columns for purchase also, and perhaps a possession age column. Another possibility would be to abandon the table and write a short textual description about each country. Currently it is too easy just to state "it's 18" without actually knowing much about legislation. Textual representation would courage users to state their sources. On the downside, that might well be too laborious. SGJ 11:59, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I will edit the tables to fit my table above. You can edit it further if you find more info is needed in the future. I am also going to span countries with only one age across all the columns so that it doesnt look like they have no age in some circumstances. - Lucky13pjn 19:46, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I have upgraded the first two tables, and after looking at them for a few days, perhaps textual entries would be best. They are kinda cramped and ugly (I shudder to think of what they look like at 800x600), and borderline hard to read. Should the tables be reverted to a list? - Lucky13pjn 21:27, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iran

is 41 accurate? Does someone have a source?

It's probably a joke. Drinking, selling or producing alcoholic drinks are illegal at any age in Iran. I'm fixing it. 207.81.138.85 20:41, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norway... wrong?

Norwegian law while it might not (don't have time to check it atm) specify an age for drinking alcohol, it does specify that it's illegal to purchase alcohol (of any strenght) with the intent to provide it to a minor (ie. buying for somebody that isn't old enough). It's also illegal to serve alcohol (I guess mostly aimed at (licenced) pubs, nightclubs and restaurants) to a minor.

The table says there's no agelimit, I'd say there is, if not de jure there's at least a de facto.

Andreala 03:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


Im from Norway, its 20 on vodka etc, and 18 on beer and wine.

In denmark there is one agelimit for all kinds of alcohol, and its 16... its sick in my opinion, but tho again; its more culture down there.

In Norway, it is illegal to sell, give or serve alcohol to someone under the legal drinking age (18 for less than 22% ABV, 20 else.) There is no law against a minor drinking it. (Though something illegal must probably have happened for that person to be in possession of an alcoholic beverage.) Bogfjellmo 17:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Now it's even more inaccurate. "Easy to come by" ?? Any supplier of alcohol will be shut down if found supplying to a minor and this is strictly enforced. Perhaps even more so in cities than in rural areas, but still. Since I'm not a lawyer I'm not going to update the page now, but will mull it over and do an update :-) --Andreala 04:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uganda. wtf?

Currently, our notes say "Caucasians are able to obtain alcohol as teenagers, although this is not the law." Does anyone have a cite? This seems a pretty serious claim to come from nowhere. If I get no reply by tomorrow, I'm removing it. Skittle 20:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] bad wording

"Peer pressure is largly responsible for teenagers trying to drink. They think that they would look cool if they drink(more adult)!"

this just sounds rather silly for an encyclopedia, i'll reword it. Joeyramoney 20:37, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Malaysia

6 years? I've found numerous sources for 21 as well as many claiming that 18 is he minimum drinking age. A source for this Malaysia claim would be very much appreciated.

[edit] Ukraine

Ukraine is 21, it's fixed now. Just giving you guys a heads up not to change it back. --Rory096 23:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] USA purchasing age of 16?

I'm aware that different states have slightly different laws, but surely you cannot make people wait 2 years after buying a drink to actually drink it?! If someone is positive the real answer is 21, then it should be changed.

Purchasing age of 16 is gone. Most of the time the minimum legal drinking and purchasing age is 21 in all states now. State laws have different permissible exceptions though not encouraged. There is no such a thing as "wait 2 years after buying a drink to actually drink it" now.--Jusjih 14:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

A lot of wine grows better with some aging, why deny young citizens of tomorrow the pleasure and luxury of having their own wine cellar :-)

Actually the converse is usually true. Most states strictly prohibit purchasing alcohol if you are under 21, but either say nothing about consumption, or permit it in certain circumstances (under parental supervision); however, adults supplying mass quantities of alcohol to minors usually can be charged under contributing to the deliquency of a minor, etc. Peyna 15:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why this page needs expert attention

I'll try to summarize the article history and earlier talk here, since i'm tagging this article needing expert attention.

First of all, the whole concept of "Legal drinking age" must be precisely defined. Currently this article says simply "minimum age one must be to drink alcohol". However, many people editing this article seem to confuse laws about drinking with laws about possession, purchase etc. To address this, separate "de facto" and "de jure" columns were created; this hasn't stopped the confusion, as the recent discussion about Norway indicates. Thus a more complex and detailed definition is needed.

It is not even clear whether LDA is a layman's term or a real legal term. Some expert in jurisprudence should check this, perhaps move the article if there is a better term in literature. If such term exists for this concept, does it equate drinking with other laws about alcohol? How about exact terms used: if only drinking is mentioned, that obviously leaves huge loopholes. Consumption? Use?

Ideally, there would be a scientific study comparing legal drinking ages of all countries. If anybody knows about existence and contents of such study, please check the table!

It also needs to be verified whether the usage of legal terms "de jure" and "de facto" is correct here.

About particular countries, LDA in United States seems to vary from state to state and contain complex exceptions; these need to be listed.

SGJ 21:11, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I was just coming to the talk page to point the same thing out! In the UK there isn't a legal drinking age AFAIK. Until 2000 there was only an age under which it is illegal to purchase alcohol (18 years). From 2000 a new law came into force which made it illegal to purchase alcohol on behalf of under-18s (proxy purchase), but it is not illegal for adults to give alcohol to their children under their supervision above the age of 5 (under 5 it is considered a medical risk rather than simply illegal). See http://www.portmangroup.org.uk/campaigns/290.asp Jooler 22:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Correct myself having seen http://www.direct.gov.uk/Parents/YourChildsHealth/YourChildsHealthArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10026210&chk=VQ8lNQ - under 5 is illegal. Jooler 22:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

== why doesn't o-v have a defacto column?

Actually, the article title is pretty inaccurate, since to my knowledge jurisdictions rarely outlaw consumption. Perhaps re-casting the article as something like Government regulation of alcohol would be appropriate and encompass all of the areas everyone wants to include in this article. Peyna 02:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Another alternative title would be alcohol law. Peyna 02:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re-write

I would not assert that I am an expert, but I am aware of the distinctions that ought to be made with this article. Please see the re-write. --217.16.87.168 11:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Italy

Are you sure law does not make a difference between strong and low alcohol drinks? I remember that when i was a teenager (more or less 8-10 years ago), some pubs refused to sell cocktails unless there were at least someone older, but didn't care about selling beer. Would be nice if somebody who really does know the law could check it. Lo'oris - ロホリス 16:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Airspace and Water

I think that something needs to be in here about while flying and sailing. Did a little research, ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) states "No international law covers drinking aboard ships and aircrafts for international waters or airspace. As an aircraft is registered in a State, the law of that State shall apply when the aircraft flies in international airspace. When entering the airspace of the State of destination, the laws of that State will apply." Basically above FL600 or 60000 feet or outside certain bounderies you must follow the rules from where the plane or boat is registered. Once you enter someones airspace you must follow their rules. Example- 18 years old flying from Egypt (Age is 21) to Pearson Airport (Toronto Canada)(Age is 19) on Air Canada. Because Air Canada is registered in Montreal Quebec where the drinking age is 18, once you are in International airspace you can drink but once you enter Ontario you can no longer drink.

[edit] This is difficult...

It`s not so easy to get the right ages, and i`m thinking most about the purchase ages. Here are two links that could help: http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/YoungPeoplesDrinking/AgeLawsTable/tabid/219/Default.aspx http://data.euro.who.int/alcohol/?TabID=2421 (select country and then sale restrictions) Maybe the WHO-link is very correct, but it only give us information from europe and maybe some information is incorrect, for example i have changed the Age Limit for Ukraine to 18 a lot of times but people say it`s 21. The WHO Database say`s 18 however.

[edit] Mexico?

I know the age is 18 there, but having been there when I was 15/16 I had no trouble purchacing alcohol. I've heard the same accounts form many people who travelled there in thier mid teens. I think a note of "rarely enforced" should be added.

[edit] Quebec

could someone enlighten me as to why quebec has its own section? i do not see this as necessary considering it is mentioned in the Canada Section.

Two reasons: 1) consumption age and purchasing age is different! 2) each province sets own standards for drinking, quebec never truly set an age until the early 90s in the books. So they only listed the drinking age and never truly established a purchasing age, meanwhile the other 9 provinces and 3 territories have set BOTH the consumption/purchasing age the SAME.

[edit] UK & Mexico

I just updated the UK & Mexico (the latter was mentioned in Talk).

Along the US-Mexico border, in the many border towns such as Nogales, Tijuana, etc. it is not entirely uncommon (especially in large groups) for alcohol to just be served to anyone. (This seemingly applies to the major tourist towns too - like Cancún.) However, in larger cities like Guadalajara they actually do check.

As far as the UK goes, I've never seen anyone be carded or questioned when trying to buy beer or wine between the ages of 15-18. I cannot speak for hard liquor. I've found that if you are in a pub or something it really isn't a problem. This may be changing with the new Licensing Act of 2003, which increases penalties for serving alcohol to minors. Anytime I ever tried, however, to purchase alcohol (as a minor) I never was questioned or carded (so long as I could pay.)

It depends on the area -- if there isn't a problem, it seems there isn't much enforcement. So a small pub in the countryside probably wouldn't care, but a pub in a problem-area of a city would. Since 2004 more people are asking though (even though I'm getting older!). I don't see it has much effect though, most groups of young teenagers have at least one older brother/sister/willing parent ;) 212.69.55.152 12:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I also believe it is due to area. I live in a small village where nobody is too woried. But when I go up to our nearest big town, I'm asked for ID everywhere. Is what is written about 16 year olds allowed alcohol when an adult buys it true? 158.125.9.4 19:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I used to get carded when I was 18 to about 20 then they stopped. But recently they have started asking me again at 23 but it seems to be common.

[edit] Belgium

There seems to be a conflict of information across the internet on the Belgian consumption and purchasing age. Even the first page of drinking+age+of+belgium on google provides a mess of information (all of this de jure, not de facto):

  1. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html -- Age 16
  2. http://www.answers.com/topic/legal-drinking-age -- A WP archive page that says what I remember this page saying: 18 for hard, 16 for everything else
  3. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_law.shtml -- Same as answers.com/old WP
  4. http://www.brugesinfo.com/faq-24/81.php -- Age 18
  5. http://www.carrentalexpress.com/international/belgium/ -- Age 18
  6. http://www.visitbelgium.com/nightlife.htm -- Age 18; this is (one way or another) a branch of the Belgian federal government, so I'm inclined to believe them.
  7. http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/YoungPeoplesDrinking/AgeLawsTable/tabid/219/Default.aspx -- Slightly more interesting than the rest, but still more or less simply says the minimum purchasing age is 18 for hard liquor and 16 for beer and wine, while all consumption is permitted at 16.

Are there any Belgians willing to clear this up? BillG | Talk 03:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Sixteen is the legal age in Belgium. Never ever have I seen ID checks at the entrance of a bar, and in my entire life I've only seen cops entering a bar once. A group of kids were enjoying a beer and had to show their ID. As they were all older than sixteen, no action was taken. I've changed the page accordingly. Fred.

[edit] Bulgaria

Although technically 18, it was almost never enforced during my trip there at age 16 (which was only a few months ago, so I doubt it's changed much).

This is true, the drinking age is rarely (virtually never) enforced its almost like buying water. Could someone change the article? DudeBoy 21:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "De Facto" minimum age

The claim

Finally there is a de facto minimum age below which minors should not be given any alcohol under any circumstances, and to do so would be an act of negligence or recklessness or constitute a criminal offence.

strikes me as OR or opinion. I mean, my mother used to rub whiskey on my gums when I was teething. --Stlemur 01:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's very poorly written. A "de facto" minimum age, would be more like "in practice;" so if the law says "21 years," but for all intents and purposes bars and stores sell to people over the age 18, then 18 could be the de facto age. The opposite could hold true as well; for example, if the law says "15" or maybe has no legal minimum, but in reality it will not be sold to minors, then 18 could be the de facto minimum. I removed a lot of the "de facto" listings, because they didn't provide citations. This is probably the most problematic part, because unless we can cite to a primary source regarding the de facto minimum age, we can't include it. Peyna 01:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
As an aside, my grandfather would slip whiskey into my mother's milk bottle when she was a baby to help her sleep at night. Peyna 01:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Necessity

Most of the discussion is about the accuracy, but nowhere on the article does it give a reason as to why governing bodies feel that legal drinking ages are necessary. That was what I was looking for in this article, and cannot find it. If anyone knows why legal drinking ages are or are not considered necessary, I believe it would be a good way to improve the article. Faranya 02:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muslims in Malaysia

It says the sale of alchohol is illegal to Muslims as well as the consumption. How do they know who's a Muslim? Do they have Muslim cards or something?

  • I took that to mean that it is illegal in accordance to their religious laws, not a national law. I doubt it was about the sale to Muslims, but I could be wrong... Faranya 00:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It seems like I've read that there are countries where it is illegal to knowingly sell alcohol to Muslims. I think what this means in reality is that non-Muslims can't sell alcohol in predominately Muslim neighborhoods or villages. Although it seems like there also are nations where a person's ID card lists their religion.--T. Anthony 11:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] De facto

The whole de facto column is OR (except for some bits that should be in the de jure column - exceptions to the law are still part of the law). I went through and removed all the "rarely enforced" comments about 6 months ago and a whole load seem to be back again. Can anyone give me a good reason not to remove the entire column? You have about 24 hours. --Tango 19:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll remove it. --Tango 23:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Australia

Why was the statement that it's legal to drink in private under 18 removed because of one sentence made by the NSW Police? It's legal to drink under the age of 18 on private premises in Victoria and this old article from The Age reports NSW to be the exception to private consumption of alcohol. Queensland Police also state that it's not a crime to do so in Queensland. The idea that this law would be strictly enforced is dubious too. There's more to Australia than NSW. MickBarnes 22:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azerbaijan

Surely the entry for Azerbaijan is wrong (and offensive) but I can't find anything to revert it to & I don't know the data to correct it myself - anyone else got the data?

Pagarus 16:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] selling/drinking

this isn't sonsistent. the list changes from selling agem to drinking age, to selling age again. which is it?--Patrick (talk, contributions) 04:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thailand minimum age

i saw on another website that there was no minimum age for alcohol in thailand.... who is right? if some thai or tourists can answer or correct this !? thank you ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.162.134.247 (talk) 19:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

What website? --Tango 20:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gibraltar

Does anyone know what the purchasing/consumption age limit is in Gibraltar? I tried looking online but could not find a reliable source. It looks like its either 16 or there isn't one. Davdos 01:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about bnei mitzvah?

At the kiddush of a kid's bar mitzvah, he takes a sip/gulp of kosher wine. At the end of his third reading, at 13 years old, he is declared an "adult" by Jewish customs. Though, thereafter we know and act that he is still a kid. I am curious what provision the laws of American states have in allowing our rabbis and leaders not to have broken the law due to allowing an underage gulp of alcohol?

Miamidot 21:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This talk page is meant for discussion about the article, rather than the subject of the article, but nevertheless: If you read the section of the article on the US, you'll see it says the law makes an exception for drinking in religious ceremonies. --Tango 23:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Who keeps defacing the page?

There's a comment next to Bangladesh in the table of countries, and I don't know how to get rid of it because it's not in the Edit This Page section. And I understand this has happened before .... (update - it was gone before i finished typing my comment) 134.173.59.115 06:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Sandy

[edit] Luxembourg

18 is wrong. I live here and its more like 16. There are even popular signs in bars saying "Keen Alkohol enner 16 Joër - Mir haalen eis drun" (no alcohol under 16 - we abide the law), even though some supermarkets have their own rules and don't sell any alcohol under 18. But high-proofed alcohol is only available at age 18, but I don't know where they draw the line, or maybe its just beer and wine (and cidre, champagne etc.) that's available at age 16. However, it is, so "18" standing alone is wrong. 90.129.3.97 19:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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