Talk:Led Zeppelin

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Led Zeppelin article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Article policies
Former FA Led Zeppelin is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article Milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Led Zeppelin as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Hebrew or Bulgarian language Wikipedias.
News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2005 press source article for details.

The citation is in: Jeb Blount. "Led Zeppelin's Page Made an Honorary Citizen of Rio de Janeiro", Bloomberg L.P., September 21, 2005.


  1. July 2001 – December 2005
  2. January 2006 – April 2006
  3. April 2006 - January 2007
  4. February 2007 - June 2007

Contents

[edit] Genre Change

I believe that Led Zeppelin should have the genre "Heavy Metal" removed from its list. While Led Zeppelin many have influenced some metal bands or have used some of the same blues progressions that bands like Black Sabbath used, this does not mean that they are in fact a "metal" band. I cite as reasons: firstly, the lyrics contain none or little of the darkness or negative emotion that typifies metal music, and secondly, the guitar/bass contain only a fraction of the typical distortion found in other "metal" music, making the songs more melodic than intense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.112.206.164 (talk) 05:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

That would be an incorrect POV delete based on a bad stereotype of the genre. Every pro publication labels them as heavy metal. On Wikipedia verifiability is key. And for this there are hundreds of references to support their inclusion in the genre. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 10:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Led Zeppelin is just not heavy metal. I agree with the first poster. The Chicken 01:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
There's a kind of discussion between hard rockers and headbangers about which bands are heavy metal or hard rock. Headbangers don't like hard rockers, but hard rockers doesn't have that feeling about the headbangers. And one thing that headbangers couldn't stand is the greatest band of the world being hard rock and not heavy metal. At least not only that. So they started to put it like that, Led Zeppelin is a heavy metal band. There are much more heavier and darkest bands than Led Zeppelin that are simply labelled as "Hard Rock". Of course Led Zeppelin has some musics that could be labelled heavy metal, such as "Achilles Last Stand", but in general, they're hard rock. Pete Vilel 13:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia isn't the proper forum for debate over who is heavy metal and who isn't. In my opinion...when I saw LZ in 1973 they were a heavy metal band. When I saw them in 1975...they were a heavy metal band. When I listen to them today...they are a hard rock band. But editor opinions have no place in Wikipedia. It's all about WP:CITE and WP:V. Right or wrong, just about every pro publication has labeled them a heavy metal band. In order to rm the heavy metal genre, by Wikipedia policy, would require at least 2 dozen valid and verifiable references in order to stick. In the end the only genre that really applies is rock. Heavy metal, hard rock, prog rock, pop rock, country rock...etc...are all just sub-genres of the parent "Rock" genre. Maybe that's the way to go for all artists? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 17:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

led zeppelin is not heavy metal,a great hard rock band but not heavy metal

Would it not be better to go on how the band classed themselves? I remember listening to an interview with Jimmy Page, possibly Robert Plant, and they did not like the label "Heavy Metal", as they did not think it was an accurate label from the music the band produced. I'm sorry i can't be of any help by bringing up links, but it was a thought anyway.86.133.105.141 19:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.133.105.141 (talk) 19:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
Yep always have said their music is not Heavy metal. Candy 21:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Their music is the prototype of heavy metal, and should probably be labelled as proto-metal. Taka an analogy, Led to heavy metal is like Patti Smith to punk. Wooyi 22:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Their link to the HM genre is referenced "in concrete". And there are many of them. Young people who aren't very "musically school'd" don't usually consider them as part of the genre. But they are very securely connected to it. It would take at least 2 dozen valid references saying they aren't heavy metal in order to pull the genre ref off of the article. I have never seen 1 valid reference for it, but that doesn;t meant they aren't out there. 156.34.217.119 22:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
They are for sure not a heavy metal band, especially considering that the first heavy metal band was Judas Priest, who wore metal and played LOUD. Zeppelin uses so much blues and rock that just because they played loud and with a ton of energy, it does not mean they were heavy metal. They hated that name, and journalists would only use that name to excite interest. 208.127.96.11 07:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the original poster, Led Zeppelin is primarily a hard-rock band and has connections with the heavy-metal genre but does not fit into it as well as it does in the hard-rock genre. As for references, allmusic.com classifies them as 1) Blues-rock 2) Hard-rock and 3) Heavy-metal. In their rollingstone.com biography it says: "Led Zeppelin is sometimes credited with inventing heavy metal. That's an understandable misconception, given that few songs bring the godless thunder quite like "Whole Lotta Love," from the British quartet's second album. But Zep's scope was far wider. Though the band wrote some indelible songs, its primary innovations were in pure sound: the orchestration of bass, drums, guitar, and voice into music that embraced mayhem and subtlety, light and shade, Eastern drones and city blues, proto-punk and centuries-old folk." This also seems to put them into the more versatile hard-rock genre instead of the in-your-face loudness of heavy metal. AFAIK, these are the two most influential/important sources of music journalism. They both (rs.com implicitly) state that Led Zeppelin is primarily a hard-rock band but can in a way also be seen as heavy-metal band and so I think the current classification (hard-rock first, heavy metal second) is correct. CheesePlease NL 21:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Albums' chart history

I just noticed that an anonymous user has changed the chart position of the 'Fourth Album' from 2 US to 1 US. I recall reading in the Q magazine special addition on Zeppelin that The Fourth Album peaked at 2. This source is not infallable, but errors are few. Can anyone confirm this chart position elsewhere? Thanks - Rockthing 14:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC) led zeppeln is not a heavy metal band,they are a great hard rock ,rck n roll band but not heavy metal

It made it to number one in the UK, and unfortunately I don't have an answer for the US. The UK certainty comes from pg 157 of Keith Shadwick's "Led Zeppelin the story of a band and their music 1968-1980" copyright 2005 Mister B. 04:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC) According to The Great Rock Discography (Martin C. Strong), it was No 2 in US.

[edit] Unreleased songs

The article states: In 1974, Led Zeppelin launched their own record label, Swan Song, named after one of only five Led Zeppelin songs which the band never released commercially (Page later re-worked the song with his band, The Firm, and it appears as "Midnight Moonlight" on their first album). What are the 5 unreleased Led Zeppelin songs? I know Nadine is 1, Now Swan Song, What's the 3 others and where can they be found?

24.47.151.238 19:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)David

This statement in the article is not only unreferenced but highly glossed over. The song referred to was mostly a work in progress and parts of the structure were apparently used in Midnight Moonlight (Cameron Crowe). The way it is written in the article is misleading. As far as this article goes, without references to validate it, it is a worthy candidate for removal. Until it is placed in with substantial refs I wouldn't bother with it. Candy 23:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hurdy gurdy player

I was wondering what was the name of the hurdy gurdy player in Led Zeppelin? 82.133.95.239 22:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

There was none in Led Zeppelin, however when Page and Plant toured Nigel Eaton did play one. IrisKawling 03:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Page also played on [Donovan]'s Hurdy Gurdy Man song. No much help but a bit of triv. Candy 21:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC) No, he didn't. 70.21.145.35 20:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, he did record on that track. So did John Paul Jones. Check the wikipedia article on Hurdy Gurdy Man. I think 82.133.95.239 most likely was asking who played the sitar in Led Zeppelin as Jimmy Page played it on the track Hurdy Gurdy Man by Donovan Frankenreiter and many have mistaken the song title to be a reference to the psychedelic sounds of the sitar.74.56.236.154 22:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reunion?

I heard that zeppelin was getting back together. did anyone else hear this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.85.95.162 (talk) 03:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Heard it many, many times. It's unlikely ever to happen, but I suppose it is possible. --83.100.198.162 01:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coda

A quick question. I know CODA was released after Bonham's death, but it was still a Led Zeppelin album. Is there any reason it is not listed under their discography? Mister B. 02:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

No idea. However, I'm guessing that like other compilations it is not mentioned here as only the albums released when the group were all alive. Coda was a mish mash and not really a well thought through album. There is a link to Zeps other albums on the page (so this one can be kept short) where they can be seen in full details. Candy 21:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Just adding that I seem to remember it might have been a contractual obligation album. However, they had their own recording label so not sure how that worked there!! Candy 17:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Presence was a mish mash and not well though out album, so Coda should be in the discography as well. The material was made while all the members were made. Is Pink Floyd's The Final Cut not an official album cause they had already broken up? 208.127.96.11 07:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Most published sources include Coda as part of the band's discography. I think it should be included. Edelmand 09:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA feedback

You have a good article here, but I am placing it on hold so you can address or justify the following concerns:

  1. The opening paragraph seems a little choppy to me.
  2. Some of the prose could use cleaning, ie. "While the album received generally positive reviews, some derided it, most famously John Mendelsohn of Rolling Stone magazine, who savaged the band for stealing music (notably Black Mountain Side from Black Water Side by Bert Jansch and the riff from Your Time Is Gonna Come from Traffic's Dear Mr. Fantasy), mimicking black artists, and showing off." Perhaps it could be split up to something like "... John Mendelsohn of Rolling Stone magazine. In his review, he savaged the band for stealing music, notably Black Mountain ...". I generally prefer to see articles without phrases in brackets and although in might be a pain, it would help with the flow.
  3. Some unsourced POV statements, ie. "By 1976, Led Zeppelin was a household name in both North America and Europe, perennially topping the charts on both continents."
  4. Post Led Zeppelin: Is such a long section really needed? It certainly wouldn't hurt to trim it down.I am open to leaving the section the way it is if it can be justified.
  5. Good use of images, although you're most likely going to have to lose a few if your pursuing higher status for the article. You should perhaps avoid using 2 concert images from the same year and is the picture of the Hindenburg necessary when there is a shot of the album cover?
  6. The sourcing doesn't fit the style guide. The citations go directly after a period or word, but in some cases, there is a space.

When these issues are addressed, let me know and I'll re-review it. -- Scorpion 14:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Just a reminder, the on hold status of this article expires tomorrow. -- Scorpion 22:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I rereviewed the article and it seems that few of my previous suggestions implemented. The one week on hold period has expired and I'm sorry, but I have to fail the article. -- Scorpion 21:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wearing and Tearing

I'm new to editing Wikipedia, so I don't know if I'm disobeying any rules but I went ahead and added Wearing and Tearing, please feel free to edit it. It was a red link so I added some info on it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Razoso (talk • contribs) 03:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Editing

When the reviewer put the GA nomination on hold, I tried to do some editing to meet the requirement, but then I confronted many "edit conflicts" like everyone else is editing it at the same time. So I might come later when there are less people around. But if anyone else can edit it to make it meet GA standards, please do so, thanks! Wooyi 16:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I will help out when I can. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time atm and when I do visit I seem to be repairing vandalsm 8( Candy 11:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rating

I am trying to edit this so it becomes a good article. However, I think surely it is worth more than a B grade in its present form? I mean, if you look at similar articles (e.g. Van Halen's) are much worse, but still have the same rating. Why exactly is this article a B grade, and not a higher rating? Any suggestions?

[edit] Debut performance is wrong.

The first Led Zeppelin date is listed as being in November 1968 at the Roundhouse, when actually it was in October 1968 at the University of Surrey in Guildford. http://ledzeppelin.alexreisner.com/tourdates.html

Do I just edit to correct it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alanroy (talk • contribs) 17:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Error now appears to have been corrected Edelmand 14:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page Length

This page is fairly long, I think we need to come up with some stratagy for cutting it down a bit, because to my mind its one of the only things stopping the page from making FA status. Maybe we could shorten down the biographys a good bit, and have two pages based on the Early & Latter Years that even the band themselves recognise as the division in there playing style. Anyone else have any ideas on shortening the page? --Ferdia O'Brien (The Archiver & Vandal Watchman) 23:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

This page is long because it is a very important page in rock music history. Please go ahead and remove tautology, irrelevance and maintain succinctness but an article which is long is not necessarily inappropriate. Candy 00:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, as does this: Wikipedia Article Length --Ferdia O'Brien (The Archiver And The Vandal Watchman) 00:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You may disagree user Ferdia. However, the article you point me to does not. Quote: "Though article size is no longer a binding rule, there remain stylistic reasons why the main body of an article should not be unreasonably long, including readability issues. It is instead treated as a guideline, and considered case by case depending on the nature of the article itself." How does this disagree with me? Candy 08:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I've just followed the Wiki guidelines for estimating page size (see the article Ferdia liunks to) and I found it to be 39 kB.

Prose size What to do
> 100 KB Almost certainly should be divided up
> 60 KB Probably should be divided (although the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time)
> 40 KB May eventually need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size)
< 30 KB Length alone does not justify division
< 1 KB If an article or list has remained this size for over a couple of months, consider combining it with a related page. Alternatively, why not fix it by adding more info? See Wikipedia:Stub. If it's an important article that's just too short, put it under Article Creation and Improvement Drive, a project to improve stubs or nonexistent articles.

I think that just about says it all. Now, if there are stylistic reasons I would be happy to hear them Candy 08:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Case in point, this article is 60KBs, I advise the possibilty of splitting it occording to Early & Latter years. --Ferdia O'Brien (The Archiver And The Vandal Watchman) 21:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Rather than splitting the page into two, may I suggest that the Post-Led Zeppelin section be scaled back (see "GA Feedback" section above, point 4). Much of this information is already duplicated in each of the 3 surviving band members' own wikipedia pages which discuss their post-Led Zeppelin solo careers. Edelmand 14:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Splitting the article, I feel, will do nothing except hinder it. I agree, the page is too long, but I and others have been attempting to fix this. The page was far larger before. I agree with a large cut in the "post Led Zeppelin section", although again it is looking more lean than it was. --FrasierC 20:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

If you read the instructions for assessing the size of a Wiki page by Wikipedia you do not include images, comtecnts or boxes. It stands I believe where I wrote it Candy 16:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The article is not too long in so much as there is quite a bit of redundancy. Each of the band's albums has a pretty formidable page of its own. While I do not necessarily disagree with there being some comment on each album in this article, there is currently far too much; should a reader be so inclined, there are links they can click on. Other than that, I do think the article looks good as it is.--Zoso Jade 22:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] good article, bad formatting

I read over this article and i gotta say it is filled with plenty of great content, but the formatting is so-so. In order to get this up to GA or FA status, some changes need to be made. One thing is that article simply has too many images. If we cut back on a few (Namely the poster for The Song Remains the same and one of the many Physical Graffiti performance shots), and re-organized the images and worked in the sound samples into the actual text and not discography, this article may be GA worthy.  Scrumshus Talk to me→ 22:27, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed an image Edelmand 12:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accusations of Copying Music

I haven't checked for any articles, but there have been credible accusations about Led Zeppelin stealing large amounts of their content from other artists. Much of the the accusations could understably be seen as hearsay, and even if there are some articles on it, does it have a place in this wikipedia article? 1337wesm 19:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

There is already reference on the page of Led Zeppelin being sued by other artists for copyright infringement Edelmand 09:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Dazed an Confused is generally accepted as being written by Jake Holmes. And if you listen to his song, it's obvious they stole it. This one should either be called out specifically or there should be a section for accusations of plaigarism(sp?)

The topic is already copied enough in the article. Unreferenced/whiny accusations/opinions are better suited for an internet chat room. The article already has too much content and needs to be trimmed anyways. 156.34.142.110 12:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the page needs to be trimmed. I disagree that this topic should be blown off with such disregard. On the topic of unsourced claims, I think it is accepted by all but the most Zep-can-do-no-wrong Zeppelin experts that the band did copy a lot of music without crediting the original artists. This is not a small issue; especially on their first couple of albums, the band was only writing about 20% of the music. While many other bands at the time were similar (The Stones, Clapton) the rest generally credited the original artist. This is quite a big deal as I spent my first few years as a Zeppelin fan thinking they had written all this and as I got deeper into the Blues, I noticed just how much was taken from other artists (forgetting the songs that were straight covers, almost all the others were taken from a wide source of old Blues songs) and this is something that was very important to me. This isn't one or two songs. This fact is so linked with the band that it is often parodied. Who can forget the episode of The Simpsons where the family arrive in London and Homer sees Page and exclaims "There's Jimmy Page! The biggest thief of African-American music of all time!" This deserves a section much more than the article needs to have those huge summaries on each album. --Zoso Jade 14:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
lol Zoso, that IS a good episode =P! hey User:156.34.142.110|156.34.142.110, i wasn't talking about "whiny" accusations, i was just wondering if there should be a section regarding the enormous amount of content that has been accused by other artists of being stolen, along with the various lawsuits 1337wesm 19:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

We had all this a while back. The problem with this is that by their very nature a lot of these accusations are not fully proven, and are basically for the listener to judge if they were stolen from a different artist in the past. Making such accusations is not for Wikipedia. There is already a bit about being sued because of copying music, and I think that's as far as a Wikipedia article can go. Wikipedia is not for making accusations, even if they are likely to be true. There could be an acknowledgement that they are accused of this, but any more would make the article worse. --FrasierC 21:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

For anyone who doubts: Click here to listen to Jake Holmes 1967 recording of Dazed and Confused: http://itsaboutmusic.net/samples/Jake_Holmes/The_Above_Ground_Sound_of/06-Dazed_and_Confused.m3u Still think Zeppelin didn't steal it?

But LZ's D&C is a re-working of the Yardbirds track "I'm Confused" which pre-dates that particular "Jake" recording. And what early 1920s blues traditional is Jake Holmes plagiarising in his song? Who exactly did he list as the song writer on his track? You would expect if a valid claim of authorship was present...some sort of legal action would have been taken. Had it been so, like the legal claims already documented in the article, then perhaps a brief, cited mention of it would be suitable. But since no legal case was ever filed then any similarity is just a matter of opinion. And opinion has no place in an encyclopedia. 156.34.210.107 02:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

So this entire page is opinion I suppose? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_%28song%29

Jake Holmes' said specifically that Dazed and Confused sounded like his version, but he decided to "let them keep it". Again, this can be mentioned, but there is no point pandering to the unverified claims that Led Zeppelin "stole" music from other artists. Stick with what we know, now what is most likely.

And citing another Wikipedia page does not prove anything.

--FrasierC 12:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

A lot of these accusations aren't fully proven?? Have you heard the songs in question? The lyrics are almost exactly the same a lot of the time. The only more damning bit of evidence that could possibly be gathered would be if we had a video of the Zep boys sitting next to a phonograph listening to this old music and saying to each other "we should use this and claim we wrote it".--Zoso Jade 15:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I have heard pretty much every Led Zeppelin song they ever made, and have heard most of the songs they are accused of copying. I agree with you, they did copy some of these songs. But that's not what this is about. Wikipedia is not made for people to spout what they think is right or correct. It's about what has been proven conclusively. It hasn't, in most cases. We can only comment on the accusations made and the fact that there was a court case, which they settled out of court. Wikipedia is not for us to say what is most likely true. It is to comment on what is true. The truth here is that there are accusations, and there was a court case. What you or I think is beside the point.--FrasierC 12:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I think perhaps you are taking the whole Wikipedian mantra just a little too far. The reason that Wikipedia asks for evidence is so that the treatment of contentious issues is standard across the board. Led Zeppeling copying other music without credit is hardly contentious. All but the most extreme of observers would agree that this is copied music, and I don't believe I have ever heard any serious person disagree. I think you will note that I never said the article should chide the band for their copying of music but rather that it should mention that several of their songs contained uncredited portions of other artists' songs and so, contrary to your point, this is not about me getting my opinions onto the page. This is a an NPOV statement and hence, is allowable by Wikipedia rules. Applying your demand for evidence rule to every section of the article and pretty much everything should be taken out. I have never seen irrefutable evidence that it was definitely Robert Plant singing on any of Zeppelin song. Can I contest the claim that Plant was the lead singer of the band? Are there actually any Zep experts on Wikipedia who thinks the similarities between Albert King's "The Hunter" and a section of "How Many More Times" is a coincidence? If so, are they mad? How is this issue contentious?--Zoso Jade 16:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not taking anything to far. What I am arguing is that Wikipedia isn't for you or I to level these accusations at the band. They are by their definition accusations. Therefore, you can perhaps make a comment that they were accused of copying Dazed and Confused et al., but you could not say that they did in actuality do so. The evidence in that particular case speaks volumes, and I would say that it is clear to me that they did. However, that's not for me to put in the article. I can however put in evidence to suggest that this was the case. People then make their own decisions from this. We can say that accusations exist, and link to them. This makes the most unbiased account possible, because it deals with factual information. Therein lies the difference.

Should we post a list of songs they copied? I would say no, and I can say why - what happens with said lists is that people add to them unverified claims of copying, like the famous Stairway To Heaven's riff is that of Spirit's "Taurus". That is an example of an unverified accusation of copying, specifically. There are other examples I have read, like how Moby Dick was apparently copied from something or other, not that I ever saw how one could copy and drum solo. Where does fact end and interpretation come in here?

What exactly are you proposing? The case and some of the accusations are already in the article. --FrasierC 17:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not believe we are in as much disagreement as it may seem. What I am suggesting is a specific section mentioning these accusations (rather than it being lost in endless text on, quite frankly, less significant issues. We can state this in an NPOV way, but I do think it should be more prominent as it is one of the most famous things about the band. I note that you are focusing on the more arguable cases such as Taurus (STH) Moby Dick (the claim is that Page's guitar part, and not Bonham's solo, is stolen from Bobby Parker's "Watch Your Step", though as you say, this is debatable, even though the guitar riffs sound similar). However, even if we choose to ignore the shakier cases, there are still numerous cases where (lyrics especially) are virtually the same and a good number where Zeppelin's use of other artists' songs is undeniable (these are mostly the old blues songs, which is why I have focused attention specifically on them). I am not suggesting a list on the page, I am suggesting a specific section that says something along the lines of:
"Many of the band's songs, especially in their early career, consisted of using sections of other artists' songs, though these other artists were often not credited. Famous examples include Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" and Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues" for The Lemon Song and Willie Dixon's "You Need Love". As a result the family of blues artist Willie Dixon sued the band for copyright infringement, resulting in a settlement being paid by the band. This had caused some controversy for the band, and has resulted in several other plagiarism claims, some of which the band claims are false."
Or something along those lines. I don't know whether as many examples as that are necessary (all the songs mentioned are pretty much indisputable, and there are more) but I think that would be pretty fair to write about the band and I'm sure there are others who would be willing to add a bit of text.
--Zoso Jade 21:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

"I do not believe we are in as much disagreement as it may seem. What I am suggesting is a specific section mentioning these accusations (rather than it being lost in endless text on, quite frankly, less significant issues. "

The issues are already in the article, and I think actually fit into the article perfectly well, both in the sections of Led Zeppelin I and II. There is a good deal of information already included as it is. Whether a seperate section is really worthwhile, I don't see there been much difference between that and what is present.

--FrasierC 19:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I vote for a different section: the fact that Led Zeppelin has not written the majority of the songs on their first albums - or even just the many accusations for this - deserves a firm place in this article. I feel important information is being omitted if this goes unnoticed in the article and adding it would add to its quality. CheesePlease NL 21:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

FrasierC
The issues are in the article but are merely scattered around other sections. I'm sure any independent observer would agree that it has been played down. This is not some passing issue that one or two people have moaned about. It is pretty famous within the industry; they have been criticised for it by other blues-covering artists (such as Clapton, who, by contrast, was very particular about noting his sources) and on searching for Led Zep on the net, many sites come up speaking of the issue. That this deserves its own section seems blindingly obvious to me. I am not some sort of troll, I am a massive Led Zeppelin fan, and perhaps it is beacuse of this that I know how important it was to me when I first noted that the songs I had always credited to their genious were actually the creations of other artists. I think leaving out a section is actually ironically similar to the same sort of denial that led to Zeppelin not crediting these artists in the first place. I am not making the edit now as I do not believe in revert wars, even though Wikipedia tells me to "be bold". I am also aware that you have been responsible for a large amount of work on this article... but you must admit... the concensus is heading firmly in the direction of the inclusion of a section. I don't think it would take much more than a lift from the II section and a better list of original artists (with only those that are generally regarded as certain). Cheers.--Zoso Jade 22:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


I don't get it. I think Led Zeppelin is one of the greatest rock and roll bands ever. But this is not a matter of reworking old blues standards whose origin is already in question and may or may not be considered public domain. These are unique songs that have been copied. The fact that some people can call it "interpretation" or "opinion" is astounding. Led Zeppelin were musical geniuses, but they are not infallible.

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