User talk:Latebird

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• Archive 2006

Contents 1 Ulanbataar Metro 2 Sum maps 3 SVG 4 Mongolian traditional medicine 5 Mongols 6 Han Chinese in Mongolia 7 Your recent vandalism revert to Mongolia 8 Khovd vs. Hovd 9 Images to Commons? 10 Two things 11 Deleting redirects 12 "GPS guide" 13 Tosgons 14 Ulan Bator exclaves

[edit] Ulanbataar Metro

A hoax indeed, but quite a good one. 'The "ghost station" Sodoor' mentioned on the external link is a dead giveaway - see Sodor. Cheers, Tonywalton  | Talk 18:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sum maps

Chandmani-Őndör in transliteration i lost(Hovsgol map). May be in German different transliteration rules? Really ь in Mongolian words does not mean any sound, it shows precedent consonant softening. If you have time and disposition - check my maps Mongolia_Arhangay_2005_sum.png and the rest with the same naming Bogomolov.PL 12:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! Yes, the soft sign should be left away in transliteration. I've moved my other comments to Talk:Aymguud_of_Mongolia, so that other people will see them as well. --Latebird 16:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SVG

I found a tool that I can load into MapInfo (someone wrote it) and converts the vector file to svg... this is the result. I will have to tweak it and see about modifying the code.

Oh, and bonus points if you can identify the area of the map. :) Rarelibra 21:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Great! That's even an easier solution than it might have been. I hope it doesn't only do distorted outlines... ;)

But the dutch coast has such a characteristic shape that even the weird proportions couldn't fool me. --Latebird 22:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

12 of March 2007 the sum map (it's raster version is in WP Image:Mongolia_sum_map.png) I'd sent to RareLibra with the purpose of SVG conversion. May be RareLibra will do this job Bogomolov.PL 17:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

That big map looks great, but it is really a demonstration why we need SVG! There are some small quirks, eg. with how the names in Orkhon aimag are displayed (cut off). I'm also not sure if the small aimags have all the sums present. I just updated the tables in all the aimag articles with the correct (I hope) spellings of all sums according to WP:MON. Maybe you and Rarelibra can do a last check if all of them are correct in the map as well. --Latebird 17:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mongolian traditional medicine

Thanks for withdrawing the Afd. I enjoyed improving the article, especially as I knew nothing about the subject. I learned a lot about it very quickly! Totnesmartin 12:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mongols

Ugghh. I realized that i reverted to older version. I wanted to put the pictures into a proper place. Sigh... E104421 02:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem, accidents happen. --Latebird 02:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Han Chinese in Mongolia

Well, I tracked down those statements that User:Maork kept reinserting into the article; turns out they're verbatim quotes from the LoC country study done in 1989. I added inline citations to the article to reflect this. Dunno if all this is actually true or not, but until we find better information that contradicts all that, it's kinda hard to justify removing it. Cheers, cab 06:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, so we have a source, thanks for tracking that down. Unfortunately, that raises two other problems: For one, most of the article seems to be a copyvio. And then, that study describes the situation as of more than ten years before democratization, which completely reformed all of the legal and social systems of the country. Its information is therefore only of historical interest, if even that. --Latebird 08:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, most articles about population groups have a history section. Better not to rely on only one source, of course, but it's a starting point. Anyway, LoC studies, being Works of the United States Government, are in the public domain, so word-for-word copies aren't actually violating any copyrights. cab 08:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, no copyvio then. Nothing against a history section either. But reproducing this information in the present tense 20 years after the fact is extremely misleading. And to include speculation ("perhaps intentionally") by the authors of the study also isn't a very good idea. --Latebird 08:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent vandalism revert to Mongolia

FYI, you recently caught one vandal's work on the Mongolia article, but missed another. Please use care in this in the future, as you missed another vandal's handiwork. Folks like me who patrol vandalism might easily see a vandalism reversion by an established user and simply move on, assuming things were completely cleaned up.

I'm sure you care to make Wikipedia a better place, as do I, so hopefully the tone of my message here comes off as guiding, not chiding. Here's to a better Wikipedia, and keep up the good work. -Quintote 03:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As one of the most active editors on Mongolian topics for quite some time, I also tend to revert most of the vandalism happening there. Your concern and help is appreciated, but I don't think that I still need guidance in this specific matter. --Latebird 10:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

My apologies if my tone came off as condescending. That certainly wasn't my intent. I composed the message above after having checked your edit history and knowing that you have been an active contributor for some time. I meant to offer merely a reminder, but regrettably chose my wording based on rhyming rather than being as clear as possible. -Quintote 02:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I regularly fix incomplete reverts by other editors, and I'm glad if someone else catches my own. Nobody's perfect, after all... --Latebird 03:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Khovd vs. Hovd

Is there a reason for the Kh/H distinction in the spelling of the city name Khovd (city) vs. that of the province (Hovd Province? Considering that there is no distinction in the original Mongolian, would not it make sense to decide how we want to transcribe this word (and 'Х-' elsewhere) and stick to this rule everywhere? (I suppose there is some standard already, I just don't know what it is). Vmenkov 04:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The decision is currently being made at Wikipedia:Romanization of Mongolian. Technically, that still needs to be elevated to an official policy, but the Kh has turned out to be uncontroversial. I haven't changed the province yet, because I'm not sure if it shouldn't be named "Khovd aimag" instead. --Latebird 10:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images to Commons?

I don't know how to send the images to Commons. How do I do that? Vidor 20:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's keep the discussion in one place --Latebird 01:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two things

First, all that stuff about moving images to Commons confused me greatly. I'm sorry, I'm still not too proficient with the technical parts of Wikipedia editing. Do I have to do it or can you move the images?

Second, that Handsthere fellow keeps undoing my edits to the Khalkin Gol article. Not sure how to proceed from here. Vidor 19:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Uploading images to Commons works exactly as here, you just need to register there as well. Once the images are there, you can have the copies here deleted. It's better if you do that yourself, because you're the licensor.

As to the dispute, the first step is trying to talk to him. If necessary, Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts may bring some help, and after that you have the full palette of Wikipedia:Resolving disputes at your disposal. The important part is not to take it personally and stay civil at all times (don't allow anyone to spoil your style). Sometimes it just takes patience... --Latebird 01:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting redirects

When you're placing a speedy delete tag on a redirect (or any page) please don't blank the page. Just add the db tag to the top. Thanks! Kafziel ^Talk 12:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to remember (fortunately I think I only did that with redirect pages). --Latebird 12:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "GPS guide"

would you care to explain this edit? I agree that articles should not give coordinates that are already given at articles linked to, but at the very least, the location of a river's source, or the point at which it crosses a boundary, are perfectly relevant to the article about that river. Of the three sets of coordinates you removed, none was in any "linked article" as your summary suggested. dab (𒁳) 12:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Those multiple coordinates in the text are not very helpful, and make it rather difficult to read. Both Burkhan Khaldun and Lake Hulun have coordinates, and both are closer/smaller than your precision of 100 km. In other words, you're not adding any information. The exact location where a river crosses a national border may be relevant for a travel guide, but not for an encyclopedia (in this specific case, that location is literally "nowhere", and probably not even interesting for tourists). Have you seen many articles about rivers, where the border crossings are specified with coordinates? If not, then that should give you somethign to think about.

Btw.: If you really want to include all the trivia about a river, then you might want to look into Template:Geobox_River. This offers a lot of possibilities without clogging the article text.

As to the other article, you may be very fond of Kravitz, but I'm not sure how important his personal hobby really is. Do you have any third party sources to confirm his notability? The exact location of his excavations is clearly insignificant, and publishing it may even be harmful. Do you want tourists to go there and start digging on their own? Note also that there are several places named "Bayanbulag" in Mongolia, and the one there is probably the least interesting. I couldn't find it on any map, are you sure it is even a permanent settlement? In any case, your link is misleading, the sum is a much better reference. --Latebird 13:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tosgons

There are tosgons separate from sums. But there are tosgons incorporated into sums. Tosgon term is in use to define settlement type (urban), but not administrative level. To my opinion tosgon term is very close to "посёлок городского типа" ([urban-type settlement] in Russian). Very rich with cities and tosgons is Selenge aimag. Sums and incorporated into sums cities and tosgons list:

1. Сүхбаатар (хот)
2. Алтанбулаг
3. Баруунбүрэн
4. Баянгол
5. Ерөө/Бугант(тосгон)/
6. Жавхлант
7. Зүүнбүрэн
8. Мандал/Зүүнхараа(хот),Түнхэл (тосгон),Хэрх (тосгон)/
9. Орхон
10. Орхонтуул
11. Сайхан/Хөтөл (хот)/
12. Сант
13. Түшиг
14. Хүдэр
15. Хушаат
16. Цагааннуур
17. Шаамар/Дулаанхаан (тосгон)/

List is from Mongolian WP Сэлэнгэ, notation хот, тосгон is from my analysis (using http://www.selenge.mn/soums.htm) Bogomolov.PL 12:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

So it seems that "Tosgon" essentially translates to "Town" in English? Do we have enough relevant information to create an article about this, or would that only be a dictionary entry? --Latebird 13:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

In official use is "village" term, not town. My dictionary tells: village - small town (amer.). But most correct is urban-type settlement, the tosgon idea came from Soviet time. For Soviets ПГТ was very natural. Mostly tosgons were bilt in Soviet time for mines, railway stations etc. All statistics add tosgon population to urban one, their area to "хот тосгон бусад суурин газар".Bogomolov.PL 07:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ulan Bator exclaves

And pay your attention on NEW Ulan Bator area: it has two enclaves (Bagakhangai düüreg in Tov, Baganuur düüreg on Tov-Khentei border). All maps I've updated. This enclaves (first 140 sq.km, second - 620) never were noted on the maps. Both were former Soviet military bases (first - air base, second - land forces base). Civil city Baganuur was bilt by Soviets for coal mines and electricity power station, it is in top 10 of largest Mongolian cities and wants separate fron Ulan Bator. Enclaves presence is normal for Soviet cities: Moscow has several enclaves, even 250,000 population Bogomolov.PL 13:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting information! I actually thought there were two Baganuurs, one Düüreg and a city in Töv, but if I understand you correctly then those are one and the same? That information should definitively go to the respective articles Baganuur and Bagakhangai. (Btw: They're EXclaves from the perspective of UB, and ENclaves from the perspective of Töv.) --Latebird 13:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

With exclaves you are wright, but I still mix this two definitions, sorry. Yes, this Baganuur is that Baganuur. And Baganuur looks like normal Soviet city, it was build by Soviets and for Soviets. It was opinion pool, 91.4% voted for separate city, but decision belongs to UB. Baganuur supplies UB with power, will be built new one power station, so UB needs this city.

Bagakhangai also the same, but its future is not so clear - its population reduced from 6000 to 3000. Official perspective plan (2006 - 2020) shows new housing, but jobs... This tosgon (in fact) has former Soviet airfield (you can find it in GoogleEarth) and railway station - line from Baganuur and Ulan-Ude - Beijing line crossing. Bogomolov.PL 07:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)