Template talk:Latinos in the United States

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Latino template 2 Project etc. 3 Latino Template 1.0 4 Image and colors 5 {{Latino}} 6 Languages 7 Organizations 8 Just a cautionary note 9 Rockero (Portuguese people is the article about the diaspora, Lusa Americans refers to US people) 10 Kindly explain the inclusion of portuguese 11 Other Latin American groups in template? 12 WikiProject Latinos

[edit] Latino template

Please help with the Latino template. --JuanMuslim ^1m 03:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

1. This does not need to be made unless all Latinos are included, meaning the Spaniards, Portuguese, French, Italians, Moldovans, Romanians, and other Europeans, not just South and Central Americans. Casey14 17:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Casey, there has been lengthy discussion on the talkpage of the Latino article as to just who is a "Latino", with the consensus that in English, "Latino" refers to the inhabitants of Latin America and their descendants.--Rockero 17:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the term Hispanic is one devised by the US Census Bureau to describe people of Latin American descent who live in the United States. This is also how the people of academia use the term as well. That's why you won't hear Mexicans, for example, refer to themselves as Hispanic or Latino. However, some people disagree about including all of Latin America within the definition because Latin America includes non-Spanish speaking countries. Today, the terms Latino and Hispanic are essentually synonymous though some people prefer one term over another. --JuanMuslim ^1m 19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

How interesting: French people, Italians and Romanians (in Romania or historic "Rumania" and Moldova, the former Soviet republic that wishes to unify with Romania) share a common "Latin"/Romance-language heritage with the Spanish and Portuguese in both Europe and Latin America. Latins and Greeks are theorized to be closely related and a long history between each other is evident in the Roman Empire and ancient Greece. I can fret for awhile on how or why the Latins are part of the Indo-European language family like Celts, Germans, Indians, Iranians and Slavs...or the cultural similarity of Latin/Mediteranean peoples with Jews (other than a religious group), Arabs, North Africans and the Middle East. I don't wanna stray off the subject, but the ethnolinguistic and anthropological links of these peoples with Latin(o)s are there. Would you include Filipinos whom are former Spanish subjects on the list of Hispanic peoples, but are various Malayan Asian peoples from the Philippines? It's a moot point, but for one group to be labeled "Hispanic" and "Latino" takes careful research. If you're an advanced expert, the Hispanic/Latino peoples could well be direct descendants of Native American peoples of the western hemisphere, because the majority of them are mestizos or highly aware of their ancestry came from indigenous peoples long ago. + 63.3.14.1 09:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Project etc.

Saludos y Asalamalaykim, Juan Muslim! I notice you signed on as a participant in the Mexican-American/Chicano WikiProject, and I want to extend you a warm welcome. I also notice you started {{Latino}}. What were you planning on doing with that? That is, what is your vision for it? What do you want it to accomplish? The project members and I may be able to help you with it, but I need to know in what direction you want to take it.

I also notice that you have been editing Islam-related articles. If there way you can share your knowledge about Islam in the Mexican American community, it would be greatly appreciated. Most of our religious articles have been focused on Roman Catholicism, and some diversity in the religious experiences of Mexican Americans needs to be represented. There are many articles that need to be written (see the tasks list), and a long-term project goal is to elevate Chicano Movement to featured article status. If you'd like to help with these or any other projects, please dig in. Also, if you have any questions or suggestions, please discuss them on the Project talkpage or on my talkpage.

Good to have you aboard, --Rockero 16:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't been as active on Wikipedia recently. I am however floored by the fact there is no template for latino/hispanic, so I just wanted to start something and get some dialogue. The template definitely needs lots of work. But at the same time its definitely needed. The template called AfricanAmerican is excellent, and that's kinda like what I'd like to see for the Latino template. As for Latinos and Islam, that's my specialty. lol. I recently started the Latino Muslims article. You can help with that. The link to HispanicMuslims.com/articles has plenty of reference material. --JuanMuslim ^1m 17:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

One issue with the template is that several articles that should exist (example: Latino history or Hispanic history )don't or are essentually part of other articles.

[edit] Latino Template 1.0

I'm adding the current code for the Latino template.--JuanMuslim ^1m 19:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Part of a series of articles on
Latinos and Hispanics in the United States
Groups
Asian Latinos Brazilian Americans Cuban Americans Dominican Americans Luso Americans Mexican Americans Peruvian Americans Portuguese Americans Puerto Rican Americans
History
Latino history Latin nationalism
Religions
Christian Churches Latino Jews  ·  Latino Muslims Latinos and Religion
Political movements
Chicano Movement Latino populism Latino leftism Latino conservatism Puerto Rican independence movement
Organizations
Association of Hispanic Arts Congressional Hispanic Caucus LULAC National Council of La Raza NALEO
Culture
Literature  ·  Studies Contemporary issues Hispanic culture Art  ·  Music Latino culture in the United States
Languages
English Spanish · Spanglish Portuguese · Portunhol  · Portinglês
Lists
Majority Hispanic U.S. Cities List of Puerto Rico-related topics Notable Hispanic Americans Related topics List of Latino topics List of Hispanic topics
This box: view • talk • edit

[edit] Image and colors

Thank you for helping out with the Latino template. What do you think should be the image at the top of the template? And, what colors do you think should be used?--JuanMuslim ^1m 20:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{Latino}}

I think the questions of colors and images are secondary at this point. Right now we should be trying to determine whether or not the template is merited. Are there enough articles to add into it to make it useful? What articles should it be placed on? What benefit will it provide to readers of the encyclopedia? What are its parameters? Will it apply to all of Latin America or just Latinos in the United States? These are the questions we should be discussing right now. And to be frank, it doesn't seem like it will do much good at this point. Once the parameters are determined, then we can get started on writing articles that pertain to Latinos as a whole. The template should be like a finishing touch to enhance to a body of articles, not an outline to determine what needs to be written.--Rockero 20:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Any project, such as this template, can be broken down into a number of smaller projects – the presentation and the content or substance, but yes, how it looks is less important than the content. I would love to see a template for Latino/Hispanic topics that is as eye appealing and as useful as the template for African-American topics, especially with the growing number of Latinos within the United States. The purpose of a Wikipedia template is to make navigation easier, and certainly there needs be an effective way to navigate through the complex web of Latino related articles, and I think that in time the template will achieve that goal.

The template should be about Latinos living in the United States. If you ask a Venezuelan off the street of Venezuela if he’s a Latino, he’ll say he’s Venezuelan or Latin American. The terms Hispanic and Latino aren’t used by most Latin Americans. A separate template could also be created for Latin Americans if someone desires to make one. I’d like to focus on seeing a Latino template. The Latino/Hispanic template could state “Latinos / Hispanics in the U.S” below the image that will be selected.

For our own purposes, whether the Latinos are descendents or immigrants to the U.S. is less important. There needs to be a template that represents all these people who are Latinos and Hispanics. Therefore, when discussing Latino history, the article would include the history of all Latinos including Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Puerto Rican Americans, etc. The history article might include bits and interesting facts about the various Latin American countries. We, Mexican-Americans, make up over 75% of the Latino population, and thus, the history, etc about us will dominate many Latino related articles, but that doesn’t mean that our Mexican-American history is synonymous with Latino history.

I think that the Latino template can give us a bit of a direction. Unfortunately, the template reveals the important articles that Wikipedia needs about Latinos. The Latino / Hispanic template needs to be tweaked that is for sure. There could be a link to the article about Latin America, links to articles about the major subgroups of Latinos, such as Mexican American and Cuban American and the possibilities are endless.--JuanMuslim ^1m 23:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Orale pues, that's the reason we made the Mexican-American/Chicano templates {{Chicano2}} and {{Mexican-American}}. However, I think your idea of a navigational template for all the Latinos in the U.S. is actually probably a better idea since many of our organizations are inclusive of Latinos from all nationalities. If we make a template that is more inclusive, maybe we could make separate navigational templates for specific topics such as the Chicano Movement and Chicano Art, for example. What you are asking for, however, is a major reorganization. And here in conservative Wikipedia, you are bound to encounter opposition. So let's get it together before we start adding it to articles.

Here's my recommendation: we reorganize the Latino template to accomodate articles that already exist. One header will be "Nationalities", and underneath, Cuban American, Mexican American, etc. That's the only idea I have for now, and when I get back I'll help with getting it together. PAZ carnal, --Rockero 03:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we'll get some opposition, but all we can do is explain ourselves. The best approach right now is as you stated, that is, to use what already exists. And, your help is essentual because you are more familiar with what Latino related articles already exist on Wikipedia. Then, we'd also have a better idea of what needs to be written or perhaps reorganized. For example, the article on Puerto Rico includes info about Puerto Rican Americans which would be good for an article entitled Puerto Rican Americans or Puerto Rican American. And, some links on the template could point to sections within various Latino related articles. --JuanMuslim ^1m 12:58, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

From what I saw in the template not found in the talk page, Afro-Latin American was included in the template in January 2007. But are also found in African American and other articles dealing with the African diaspora or the African race (Africans). The template on the above is old and not the official template used in the Wikipedia project. + 63.3.14.1 09:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

Do you think that the Ladino language should be listed on the template ?--JuanMuslim ^1m 04:14, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so Juan. No significant number of U.S. speakers.--Rockero 01:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --JuanMuslim ^1m 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no preference, but please look at Template:Chicano Language for additional languages. Joaquin Murietta 23:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Organizations

Should Hispanic Student Association be added? --JuanMuslim ^1m 23:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Well we should probably take this opportunity to decide what orgs should be included. Political? Cultural? Business and professional associations? Student groups? Only National organizations? Or regional ones too? And only orgs that are specifically Latino? Or ones that are composed of/serve specific sub groups (like Puerto Ricans or Mexican Americans)?

I think we whould move toward including the major national political, cultural, professional, and student groups, and including smaller, regional, or more focused groups in a larger category or a list, which we can link to from the lists/categories section.--Rockero 23:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

That would be best. And, a list would help ensure most organizations are mentioned.--JuanMuslim ^1m 14:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a cautionary note

The template looks pretty good, but beware making one too long for the articles on which you place it. For example, try paging to modern times from Hugh Capet up through Louis_VII_of_France and beyond and watch the page bottom. Something like that would be well if it were broken into shorter templates that could be included at need, or a bottom across width where it doesn't force unfortunate formating effects on other things on the article bottom. We're having a little discussion on such presentation problems, for a little more on the issue. Best wishes! // FrankB 02:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rockero (Portuguese people is the article about the diaspora, Lusa Americans refers to US people)

So what? Please explain why it's not allowed in the template. And no, portuguese people is not necessarily diaspora. Portuguese people is portuguese people. You may be thinking of portuguese american/luso american.

Casey, there has been lengthy discussion on the talkpage of the Latino article as to just who is a "Latino", with the consensus that in English, "Latino" refers to the inhabitants of Latin America and their descendants.--Rockero 17:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

No, not English per se, but mainly in the USA. is this USA wiki? and just how do you come to the conclusion that an agreement has been reached? maybe i just am not fully aware of the rules for this template. i just want to know.

--Lusitano Transmontano 19:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

We decided earlier that this template was going to be for Latinos in the US. The article you had placed in the template, Portuguese people is about the diaspora, whereas Luso Americans is about Portuguese and Portuguese-descended people in the U.S. If you have more information about the use of the word "Latino" outside the US, please add it to the Latino article. Please continue to add your input. Thanks, --Rockero 20:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

diaspora is only a part of it. luso americans are part of the diaspora. maybe Portuguese people is too inclusive for this template which is intended to be exclusive and thats what you meant. as for the rest, ok, thanks for the explanation. take care.

--Lusitano Transmontano 00:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kindly explain the inclusion of portuguese

Greetings,

I have read the "Latino" Wikipedia page and the "Hispanic" wikipedia page. Both of them say more or less the same, the "Latino" one even specifically stating that European-born speakers of latin languages are not included:

"Persons of Portuguese, Italian, or French heritage, while being European, Caucasian and "Latin" in the European sense of the word, are speakers of the worlds romance languages, "Latinos" as used in the United States, but are not considered latinos."

Hispanic even less so, for all the reasons that are known. It even has a map in the article showing the "Hispanic World", with Portugal ommited of course.

With that in mind, I fail to understand why are "Luso-americans" and "Portuguese Americans" included in a group of articles about "Latinos and Hispanics". Even more ridiculous is that "Spanish Americans" are nowhere to be seen in the info box. The info box contradicts the Wikipedia definitions and the definitions of the linked articles and can even be considered offensive due to historical reasons.

I'm waiting for some kind of feedback on this, otherwise I'll change the infobox. I'll wait one day since the incongruency is really ridiculous, even considering that were using the "american" redifinitions of terms that are vague, misleading and more or less useless.. Greetings, Fred --195.245.185.32 16:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

You're to kind, actually. After having read the Latino and Hispanic talk page I'm going to remove the exlusively Portuguese references in the infobox. I doubt that whomever put it there actually knew the terms being used. --Bellum sine bello 20:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted multiple succesive edits by an IP user which amongst other things also changed this. The above reasons should be discussed, I think, before altering things... --Bellum sine bello 05:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Latin American groups in template?

There are 20 countries with Spanish-speaking people in Latin America, plus Brazil made up of Portuguese-speaking people. I don't understand why the removal of Luso-Americans and Portuguese Americans, because there was an assumption of Portuguese people are not Latino. Well...the Brazilians are Latin American, but not quite Portuguese Americans whom are represented in the European American or white "racial" category (so are Hispanics of European origin, since Hispanic isn't a racial but cultural category). + 63.3.14.1 09:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Latinos

You are invited to participate in Wikipedia:WikiProject Latinos, a project dedicated to developing and improving articles about Latinos and Hispanics. Currently, we are discussing prospects for the project. Your input would be greatly appreciated!