Talk:Latin influence in English
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[edit] Greek elements
Removed from article:
- While English has also made liberal use of Greek roots and affixes, Greek word elements are only combined with other Greek elements. Latin word elements, in contrast, freely combine with elements from all other languages including native Anglo-Saxon words.
It simply isn't true that Greek elements combine only with other Greek elements; television (Greek tele and Latin vision; the Greek is τηλεόραση, perhaps teleorasis if anglicized) is perhaps the best example. Greek prefixes (e.g., hyper-) can also affix to Germanic and Latin or Romance words. —Tkinias 21:30, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Cat
- cat/feline
Actually "cat" also appears to have a Latin origin, but indirectly, via Old German "Kattuz", from Latin "Cattus" Bogdan | Talk 11:21, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- In this case Latin was only an intermediate language that spread the word about Europe. In truth the word is likely from Africa. The Germans seemed to have borrowed it quite early, and is in all West Germanic tongues (or was).
- Cats are from Africa, but there's no evidence the word cat is of African origin. It's common throughout European languages, but no one really knows where it came from. User:Angr 16:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Title
This article is exclusively on English vocabulary. No mention is made of attempts to impose Latin grammar rules onto English or the resulting grief/hilariously misguided pendantry. I would add something, but it's unlikely to be NPOV -Acjelen 21:18, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Greek Roots Incorrectly Identified as Latin
Could someone verify that the following words are more properly of Greek origin? — dermal for skin (Latin seen instead in "subcutaneous"); "cardial" (sic) for heart (unless "cordial" is meant instead of "cardiac"); arachnid for spider; haematic for blood (Latin seen in "sanguine" or "consanguinity").
Also, "stellar" would be better for star, although astrum was borrowed into Latin from Greek astron. And I did find hepatiarius in my Latin dictionary meaning "of the liver," but that is a Greek borrowing as well, with jecur as the Latin word for liver.
Now I just looked back and found a long list of words which are originally Greek: apostle, bishop, priest, anachronism, democratic, enthusiasm, analysis, atomic, dynamic, mechanics, synthesis, theory. Some of these might have come to English via "New Latin," but they are definitely Greek borrowings.
I'd make the changes myself, but I'm just too timid (from Latin timidus) as a relatively new user of Wikipedia.
- (The above unsigned comment was made by 24.44.254.152 (contribs) on 12 July 2005)
- Yes, you're absolutely right. I actually came to the talk page to point this out. Don't forget to sign your comments with ~~~~, et noli tremere contribuere, timide (And don't be afraid to contribute, timid one.) Andyluciano 21:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Development of -s Plural
From the article:
- Old English had six ways of marking plural nouns. French, in common with all languages of the Western Romance branch, marked plurals with -s. Middle English, under influence from Norman French, had only two ways of marking plurals: -en and -s. The French -s eventually became the preferred form for marking regular plurals. In fact, only three instances of the -en form remain: brethren, children, oxen.
I thought the idea that English took its plural from French was far out of date. Anybody know gainwise?
[edit] New Approach
I think this article might be better served by a more topical approach to describing the influence of Latin on English. Listing many words would serve a greater capacity as examples in a narrative, rather than the focus of the article itself. There should be a general set-out of Latin and English interaction. A timeline approach may be great, but it would work all the better if we were told why certain words entered the English Lexicon at certain stages. The 18th century saw the addition of inkhorn terms, as indicated below as a writing style. Law has maintained more Latin than other spheres, perhaps these different domains need discussing. It is the influence of Latin on English, not just a list of Latin-based words and grammar. Thank you Zach Beauvais 00:08, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Disputed
I have put the {disputed} template on here for a few reasons:
- The article habitually misidentifies Greek words as Latin. It's possible that some of the later forms of Latin imported these obviously Greek words (like anachronism), but that should be noted if it is the case.
- Also, some of the supposedly Germanic English words mentioned actually have Latin roots themselves. Someone needs to verify them all.
- The post above about the -s plural coming from French. Someone needs to verify this.
In general, I think this article smells a little funny. Andyluciano 21:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree that this article needs work. There is little or no mention of the grammatical influence that Latin has had on English. I know, off the top of my head, that the removal of multiple negatives from english grammar was based on latin, and that old english originally had a multiple-negative language (i.e. "not" comes from the old english word for "nothing", and became an intensifier in sentences before becoming the primary negative of sentences, similar to french "pas"). If anyone can cite any other grammar examples and find scholastic proof of my example, that would be great.--67.184.163.248 04:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)Ikiroid
--Double negatives have not died out in all forms of English. Many (perhaps most) forms of spoken English make use of them including London Cockney, Hispanic-american, and AAVE (or whichever is the politically-correct format now). Also, from a lecture given at the University of Southern Colorado, the professor seemed to think that double negatives were prescriptively denied 'proper' English through the use of mathematical reasoning or logic (two negatives make a positive, yet the usage is the opposite... etc). Additionally, I would recommend as an excellent source (and much more scholarly than Bill Bryson [though not necessarily as entertaining]) Baugh and Cable's: A History of the English Language which has an extensive selection and description of Latin influences. As a final note, this article should contain mention of Inkhorn terms. These were words used by the pompous to lend their writing an element of gravitas. Thank you Zach Beauvais 00:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bill Bryson
Why is his book cited as a reference? It is entertaining in parts, but is not scholarly — as references should be. Rintrah 17:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
