Talk:Larry Darby

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To Selkat: You are wrong and unethical. You have caused Wikipedia to display content designed to disparage the subject. Check with your attorney in Florida. You have violated policy and the law by continuing to display libelous content.

Selket: I accept your word that you did not re-post the text that was taken down due to being libelous or false or otherwise designed to disparage the subject. I re-read what was posted and I believe I know who is responsible. Some of the statements include outright fabrication! My e-address is listed with my account. If it's better, we can communicate privately.

Contents 1 Re: Selkat has an obvious vendetta against Larry Darby. 2 Re: Selkat has an obvious vendetta against Larry Darby. 3 Email 4 Citing Wikipedia 5 Sneaky Edit 6 ADL links and NPOV

[edit] Re: Selkat has an obvious vendetta against Larry Darby.

I did not rebuild the page. I was very unhappy when I saw the state that it had been returned to. I have no idea who User:71.207.240.17 is. To be honest, I do think the page needs some rework, but if I make any changes they will say they are made by User:Selket

--Selket 14:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Selkat has an obvious vendetta against Larry Darby.

I did not rebuild the page. I was very unhappy when I saw the state that it had been returned to. I have no idea who User:71.207.240.17 is. To be honest, I do think the page needs some rework, but if I make any changes they will say they are made by User:Selket

--Selket 14:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Email

Although your email may be listed with your account, I have no way to access it unless you also check the Enable e-mail from other users box. I'm going to try a rewrite with NPOV. Please let me know what you think. --Selket 17:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I did respond somewhere, though I'm not quite sure where. If you don't find it, let me know. Generally I approve and I appreciate your efforts. I did offer a couple of suggestions.

[edit] Citing Wikipedia

These citations are a bit of a special case. Since they are edits made by Larry Darby to Wikipedia, it is apropriate to cite his quotes on this site. I have put them back pending further discussion here.

--Selket 22:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source in any case, much less a biography on a living person. If he is notable enough for an article, then it should be no problem to find good sources. Please remove any information that relies on Wikipedia for a source or find a reliable source for it. Frise 22:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I have gone through the history of the page and the material you're citing wasn't even added by Darby. It was added before he started editing. I'm removing it until you can find a reliable source. Frise 22:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

There are two seperate claims that I cited from previous wikipedia edits. The AP quote I have re-sourced. The other is a statement about what the Darby family say they can trace back with the help of the Alabama Geniological Society. Such a claim is perfectly quoteable from a wikipedia posting. I suppose we could ask him to post the same statement to another website and then reference that, but I think we all agree that would be silly.

As an example of how silly your argument is, it is as if I made the statement "Frise has said that Wikipedia is not a reliable source in any case," and I cite your posting above as evidence that you said so. Someone else then comes along and blindly claims that Wikipedia is never a reliable source and so I can't claim that "Frise has said that Wikipedia is not a reliable source in any case."

Suppose I said "Frise posts on Wikipedia talk pages." Could I then cite this talk page as evidence that you do? I think you are getting to wrapped up in the letter of the law and forgeting the point of the rules: to preserve acuracy and prevent libel. On that note it is worth noting that Larry Darby as expressed satisfaction with the quotes as they were presented. But I guess I can't point to that either.

--Selket 23:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

More complains have been raised about WP:RS. I would direct those people who have doubts to this section specifically. In addition, the person who reverted my last edit deleted the statement that was cited to 1010 WINS, one of the largest news radio stations in the country. Can someone please say what is wrong with that? --Selket 23:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to readd the link to 1010 WINS. I reverted it along with the self-reference. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 23:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I have restored the 1010wins reference, but I don't have a source for the other material. Frise 23:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sneaky Edit

First let me say that I do not mean to imply malace on any other editor's part. I just think that a content change merrits debate, and so I bring it up here.

In an edit claiming to revert my changes Yuser31415 also deleted the second half of the sentance that now reads "The Darby campaign generated controversy when Darby questioned the number of Jews who died during the Third Reich, placing the number around 140,000 suggesting that many of those succumbed to typhus." In doing so he or she removed a statement of the opposite possition, namely that more than 140,000 Jews died and that it was due to human action not typhus. The Darby campain's statement was controversial precicely because some people disagree. That disagreement should be mentioned, but I do agree that this article should take no position on which account is correct as per WP:NPOV

--Selket 00:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

And, I did simply revert your changes, because they contained an internal reference. Anything else that was removed was deleted in the revert (see WP:REVERT). Please stop implying that I am acting in bad faith. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 00:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I do not believe that you were acting in bad faith, and I specifically said that I was not implying you were acting in bad faith. --Selket 00:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

From Larry Darby: I find it facinating that so many people take an interest in how to portray a mere mote of a moment in my life! I'm wondering how long it will take for those who promote cultural Marxism or Communism to resume their efforts to re-write this alleged biography to fit their ends? Or have they begun? Already we've seen links that get to the crux of the matter or deal with material issues deleted. People who believe Wikipedia offers some contribution to knowledge are fooling themselves. Wikipedia is just a propaganda tool for those who own or control it.

No one owns Wikipedia, neither does anyone control it. However, we cannot accept your word for it that you are indeed Larry Darby, even if you are correct - I could say "I'm from Mars, and 453,432 years old, and can solve any mathematical equation in existence" - you see, we need reliable sources to verify that the information is correct. I hope that helps, Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 00:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

My point is only that if you did say that, we should be able to quote you as claiming to be from Mars without taking a position on whether you are or not. The fact that you say you are from Mars could be noteworthy, particlarly if it fits into a large picture. --Selket 01:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

From Larry Darby: Nobody owns Wikipedia? Are you from Venus or what? There's a Wikimedia corporation that solicits funds. That's a business. A business has owners. I find that people who take Wikipedia seriously are often deluded, living in a virtual world. Further, cultural Marxism seems to be the pre-eminent mindset of the owners/controllers.

[edit] ADL links and NPOV

We should all remember that no matter how we feel on a subject, as editors of an encyclopedia article, we must proceed with a certain degree of academic detatchment.

I think we need to remove the comments that Larry Darby is anti-semitic. The ADL clearly thinks so, but their site does not quote any anit-semetic statements. If the article says, "he expressed anti-semitic viewpoints," then it should be able to reference those viewpoints. As the article stands, it does not. Rather it links to a site that claims he is anti-semitic, which in turn does not reference any external sources.

He is a holocaust denier, but stating that he is anti-semetic does not add anything. There are people who think that all holocaust deniers are anti-semetic, and they don't need to be told he's anti-semitic to form that oppinion. There are also those who share Mr. Darby's views and consider allegations that their "historical viewpoint" make them anti-semetic is part of an attempt to silence them. These people are not going to have their minds changed either. Please see: WP:NPOV on letting the facts speak for themselves.

That Larry Darby is a self claimed Holocaust denier is a fact. Whether he is an anti-semite is an opinion.

-Selket 20:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)