Talk:LAMP (software bundle)

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Contents 1 Historical LAMP Factoids 2 BAPP - Bias 3 merge L.A.M.P text to here 4 Bundle or Stack? 5 merger done. 6 Lamp Blog 7 variants ordering 8 merging pointless articles here 9 LAMP does not include Primate 10 Primate = Mono ?? 11 Software section must be removed 12 Microsoft does not belong here 13 Break up LAMP and WAMP 14 VAMP

[edit] Historical LAMP Factoids

To define LAMP solely on the basis of software components does the topic no justice, I think. LAMP is really best defined as web application built with embedded server side scripting. For those historically interested, herewith a few factoids:

- the basic elements of interactive web pages (html <FORM> tag, http POST method, cgi server API) appeared around 1993, but were not commonly available until 1995. The server side language was unix shell scripts, no database in sight. http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/WCBirth.html

- David Hughes is the inventor of the LAMP stack, presenting all concepts and working code to a March 1996 conference. His solution includes a lightweight SQL engine ("mSQL") and a server side embedded scripting language ("W3-mSQL/Lite") running as cgi module. His solution is open source, but the license is restrictive. http://web.archive.org/web/19990219215138/www.hughes.com.au/library/lite/qauug96/

- PHP gets started as a set of perl scripts in 1995. It remained, by and large, a one-man project as late as 1997. PHP in its design combines the best parts of David's emdedded Lite with the best elements of Perl. http://nl2.php.net/history

- Monty Widenius is a mSQL user, but finds preformance lacking. He releases an API-compatible mSQL clone under the GPL, called MySQL, in 1997. Because of the better performance (mSQL did not have indexes) and the GPL license, MySQL quickly becomes a popular choice.

- Michael Kunze coined the acronym LAMP in an article for the German computing magazine c't in the summer of 1998. He uses it for Linux-Apache-mSQL/MySQL-Perl/PHP software stack.

- The 1999 O'Reilly book "mSQL and MySQL" still talks about David Hughes' stack, mSQL and MySQL, and Perl and PHP as equivalent components in a LAMP stack. The book does not use the phrase LAMP, though. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565924347/002-7811298-5052863?v=glance

- Early in 2000, Larry Wall joins O'Reilly and Tim O'Reilly -- who saw the potential of the web as an app delivery platform early on -- starts to market the LAMP concept in the sense of Linux-Apache-MySQL-Perl. O'Reilly starts the OnLAMP website. The acronym starts to catch on. However, Perl lacks the embedded quality that David created for Lite and was carried through in PHP. As a result PHP increasingly pushes out Perl for LAMP applications.

- ONLamp was launched in February 2001 - http://linuxpr.com/releases/3277.html. If you want an early citation for publisher recognition of the term 'LAMP', try Wrox's 'Beginning PHP4 Programming' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1861003730), published October 2000. The chapter divider pages feature a picture of a lava lamp (the subsequent 'professional PHP 4' features a Davy lamp), and I think the term is referenced in the introductory text. My copy has gone wandering, however, so I can't confirm... -- James Hart

- From 1998 to 2004, the LAMP concept rises to prominence. The components that benefit most are Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP. Each component goes through several revisions and the implementation of David's original idea becomes stronger and stronger. A large amount of open source PHP-based LAMP applications get written. Some well known examples are SugarCRM and PHProjekt.

- In 2004, release 5 of PHP drops the bundling with MySQL and replaces it with SQLite, which outperforms MySQL. Zend, the company of the PHP authors, partners with Oracle Corp. and IBM to create solutions for corporate needs, based on Oracle and DB2.

- From 2004 onwards the LAMP paradigm is implemented in numerous ways, using a variety of software stacks. Windows-IIS-SQLServer-PHP is as viable as Linux-Apache-Oracle-PHP, is as viable as OSX-Boa-SQLite-PHP. PHP has entrenched is position through the large base of applications that depend on it.

- By 2004 browsers had evolved and standardised enough that cross-platform client side scripting became a practical option. The relevant technologies are DHTML/Javascript and in particular javascripts new found ability to do http requests outside of the main page refresh. The catch phrase for this is AJAX.

AJAX changed a visual enhancement in traditional client server concept. It dont refresh the whole page. Just change a portion of the webpage ( By Bikram Choudhury ) SEO Expert & PHP MySQL programmer LAMP WAMP

In essence, the LAMP paradigm is "db driven web app with server side (and client side) embedded scripting". That is how it started in 1996 and that is how it has come full circle a decade later. The user view of this is that it is now possible to centrally host an application that can be accessed everywhere through a browser with an end-user experience that is similar to classic VB/Delphi apps. It may not be quite as rich, but it is good enough. Its greatest stengths (the unix philosophy: simple, modular approach; everything is text) is also its greatest weakness (bits of arcane code all over the place). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.84.196.36 (talk • contribs) 17 September 2005.

[edit] BAPP - Bias

BAPP Referring to *BSD, Apache, PostgreSQL, and PHP. This combination is preferred by experienced developers who place importance on features and stability, as opposed to speed and popularity.

The comment attached to this variant doesn't read as neutral to me. I would ask that we try to reword the comment or remove it. This is the only variant to have a comment of this type. --Peteresch 21:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] merge L.A.M.P text to here

It seems like this is the much more appropriate title. A simple redirect won't do, because there's history on both pages, and I'm not experienced enough with Wiki procedures about such. --Randal L. Schwartz 17:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bundle or Stack?

thats perfectly alright. but it isnt a software bundle. and my main reason to redirect it was, people searching for LAMP/L.A.M.P on wikipedia wouldnt get this page. so let the discussion page remain as it is and let it grow. while the article page remain precise and sweet.

- Amol V. Shah (a.k.a cyborg) 22:24 FEB 14 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand. If we merge LAMP and L.A.M.P to here, then the redirect will remain in place, so everyone will see the right thing. Maintaining separate articles doesn't make sense if it's semantically the same item. Also, "LAMP (software bundle)" is a disambiguator. What else would you put in the parens instead (and if so, we should move this article there)? But I think (software bundle) is as good as any. --Randal L. Schwartz 18:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "software bundle" is necessarily the best term. The bundle disambig page describes a bundle as "a group of products or features sold as a unit" - a LAMP installation would be just as much LAMP if you bought (sourced) all the sections separately and installed it bit by bit. I think the term "stack" may be more accurate. As per "solution stack", "software stack" or maybe "application stack". Jamse 10:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, "software bundle" can always be patched up later. The merge should happen now so there's no more separate divergence between this entry and the other entry. In the absence of any sensible objection, I'll do the merge myself 24 hours from now. --Randal L. Schwartz 16:09, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've put in a request at WP:RM to finish the merge. --Randal L. Schwartz 09:33, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this is a bad term. LAMP isn't generally bundled together (except as a part of a much larger GNU/Linux distribution). It would be better described as a platform or stack. In fact, LAMP is used as an example at solution stack. Any objections to moving it to LAMP (solution stack)? Superm401 - Talk 02:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merger done.

I have Copied the text to the Article section. But what about the original text. Should it be kept at the original location???
- Amol V. Shah (a.k.a cyborg) 16:26 FEB 18 2006 (UTC)

This is why I was waiting for an admin. What you need is for an admin to "move" the old to the new so that all links pointing at it are also automatically renamed. Let the WP:RM request settle out first, please. --Randal L. Schwartz 16:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Darn it, we already had edits on this page. OK, to keep anything else from being mis-edited, I pulled down the mergefrom/mergeto tags again, and just put in a redirect. The powers-that-be can do the final rename. --Randal L. Schwartz 22:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what there was to move here. Someone created a copy of this at L.A.M.P on 11 February, with little to no content, and it was merged to this article a few days later. Merging edit histories does not make sense in this case, so I think that's it, ne? —Nightstallion (?) 12:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lamp Blog

Guys, i am still a novice in this category. Was familiar with the term hardly a yera ago. Dont get time for much development, since in final year of my engg course. But still out of curosity i have started a blog on blogspot. its named http://www.lampblog.blogspot.com. Feel free to comment and post article. But i think to post, you need a membership at blogspot. Also you can be a member of this blog, just let me know. I'll send u ppl an invite, coz this is how Blogspot works.
- Cyborg 09:53 FEB 22 2006 (UTC)

[edit] variants ordering

i think the order of the variants list needs to be rethought. it just strikes me as odd the amps is toward the top of the list and amp is at the very bottom. logically, they should be together. and lamp, lamps, and bright lamp should be at the top since they are very close to the original. as for the rest of the list, it may or may not need to be reordered.

[edit] merging pointless articles here

wamp, lapp, wapp, wimp, fwap, flap, mamp, opal, glam, fwip, and whatever other platform articles there are out there should be merged into lamp. those articles for the most part only restate what is in the platform, which is already in the lamp article. the other articles can redirect to lamp.

List of acronyms for reference: wamp, lapp, wapp, wimp, fwap, flap, mamp, opal, glam, fwip

WAMP LAPP WAPP WIMP FWAP FLAP MAMP OPAL GLAM FWIP -- Writtenonsand 04:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

These acronyms are ridiculous. When I read the LAMP page and saw someone had actually recorded all these combinations, I could only imagine the stereotypical near-autistic computer nerd fastidiously enumerating all possible four-letter-acronyms relating to web server technologies... :S 129.173.212.221 20:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Right you are! Fuck 'em! All those stereotypical near-autistic computer nerds should just take their information technology and go home! If it was good enough for great-grandpa, it should be good enough for us!  :-) -- Writtenonsand 11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LAMP does not include Primate

The reference to Primate near the beginning of the article will cause readers to be misled into thinking that Primate is as commonly used in a LAMP environment as are PHP and perl. In fact Primate is not common at all.

As originally used, LAMP referred to Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP. Later, many people began interpreting the P to refer to PHP and perl. I doubt that more than a very small number of people seriously think of the P in LAMP as referring to Primate.

Rahul

I did some clean up on the article. It is pitifully lacking in content. I referenced Perl and Python, but the P in LAMP clearly stands for PHP and the article should focus on PHP as the primary language, regardless of others using the acronym to promote other languages. See the reference article on the creation of the term LAMP for more info. Bytebear 19:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Primate = Mono ??

Additional, and independent, Primate-related query: LAMP (software bundle) gives the P in the acronym as referring to "Perl, PHP, Python, and/or (rarely) Primate, scripting/programming languages." -- However, "Primate" directs to the article Mono (software), in which the word "Primate" does not occur. I assume that this is not an error, but neither is it helpful for the uninitiated. Let's include a note of explanation in Mono (software) or fix this if wrong. -- Writtenonsand 22:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Software section must be removed

The software section is pointless. Supposedly it's so that a n00b would know what Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP were. But at the very top it says that Linux is an OS, Apache a web server, MySQL a database, and PHP a programming language. I think that is enough. If they want to know the specifics, they can go to the conveniently linked articles. We shouldn't have a section just to fill up space. It's just stupid to have it here. ColdFusion650 16:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Microsoft does not belong here

BSD variants I'm OK with. Postgres and Python instead of MySQL and PHP, definitely. But they're all free and open: this is an important part of LAMP. If you can't open the hood to rewire things your way, it's not LAMP. IIS is not a "variant" of the Apache-based systems, it is an alternative. --대조 | Talk 10:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

As is MSSQL as a database, but people still do use those when a free alternative is not available. and PHP does run on IIS. This is a good point and should be discussed in the article. This article should not be written as a list of solutions, but a discussion of why those solutions are used instead of a standard LAMP setup. Bytebear 22:05, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Break up LAMP and WAMP

Since this page has merged WAMP, LAMP, and just about everything else, shouldn't it be named "AMP Stack", or something along those lines... As Microsoft, Linux, Macintosh, and so on, are now not relevant to the URL(s) and overall content... I came here from "/WAMP" and it redirected to "/LAMP (software bundle)". It just does not make sense. Or at least it should be broken down into LAMP, WAMP, and maybe MAMP, as those are the big 3. Or perhaps, one general "AMP Stack" page, "LAMP Stack", and "WAMP Stack". Vorlion 03:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

This also satisfies the above comment about getting rid of IIS, though I would just leave it be as a one liner explaining the acronym. Vorlion 03:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I think because LAMP was the original concept and has a history, we should start there, and then discuss other adaptive stacks. I have no problem having WAMP redirect here. Bytebear 04:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

LAMP refers to Linux, there is no way around that. WAMP is the Windows version of Apache, PHP, MySQL, there is also not a way around that... I have been providing a WAMP distribution since 2003 at http://www.devside.net/ and this really does not make much sense to me, categorizing everything under LAMP. Though a redirect is just fine, if there is not enough specifics for WAMP and the rest -- which it looks like is the case.

Personally, I would rather have...

General "AMP Stack", with history and general info, "LAMP Stack" sub-section, "WAMP Stack" sub-section, "other acronyms" sub-section.

Everything like LAMP, WAMP, etc, redirecting to "AMP Stack"

Just a thought, nothing more. Vorlion 04:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

You make a good point, and I would agree, except that LAMP (using all free software) was the original concept. Changing Linux to Windows breaks the "free" concept that is a critical point of the stack. I agree that Windows is used as much as Linux. I actually develop on Windows and upload to Linux, so that makes my platfomr WAMP->LAMP? The problem is, although it is popular, using Windows instead of Linux is one of many adaptations on the original LAMP concept. Thanks for your input. Bytebear 05:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

"I actually develop on Windows and upload to Linux..." As long as you are using the 'Web-Developer Server' Suite, from devside.net, for your WAMP needs, I'm okay with the rest. Vorlion 05:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice plug, but I use Zend Studio, and a proprietary core engine designed by me. Oh, and I use Oracle too (so I guess its WAOP->LAOP). Bytebear 06:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

WAOZPP (zend,proprietary php) is better... How has the Zend IDE worked out for you? Is it worth it, over an editor? Vorlion 06:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I will answer on your talk page (as I don't think everyone editing or reading this page really cares). I will point out that LAMP is a defined structured approach with a specific history and design. Others have adapted it, but it already is getting silly with all the possible variations. Bytebear 19:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I've actually come to see your point, and I agree... As the other acronyms are more of a branch, rather than a parallel, of the main LAMP acronym. When history, design, and other factors are included in the discussion. Vorlion 00:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

To make this a good article, it makes more sense to discuss the reasons why people choose Windows over Linux in certain cases, and find references (probably in tech manuals, well established websites). The problem is, everyone is selling a solution, so this should not be about that, but rather about the scholarly aspects of LAMP and its derivatives. Bytebear 04:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

WAMP vs. LAMP for home users, or Apache/Linux vs. IIS/Windows for corporations? Vorlion 16:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

depends on the corporation. I work for a Fortune 500 company, who's main source of income is internet sales, and we use LAMP, well LAOP technically. Also, Yahoo! uses LAMP as I understand it, so LAMP is not a home solution, but can be used at the enterprise level. MS wants you to believe they are the only corporate solution, but smart companies know better. Bytebear`

Looks like we now also have SAMP, see http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/amp/index.html Vorlion 01:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VAMP

VAMP (VMS-Apache-MySQL-PHP) (an orphan article) has a merge tag with WAMP (Feb 14 2007) which redirected me here. Most likely, the merge tag was never placed on WAMP as WAMP was merged here before that date. Does anyone know what to do with it? Squids'and'Chips 01:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

delete the VAMP (VMS-Apache-MySQL-PHP) article by having it redirect here as well. Bytebear 07:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)