Talk:Lake Titicaca

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This little tidbit was from my original Everything2 write-up, but I'm not sure if it belongs in Wikipedia:

Strange Fact: If someone falls into Lake Titicaca it is local tradition to not help them, and let him or her drown as an offering to the Earth Goddess Pachamama. - stewacide

Contents 1 caption 2 Photos 3 Pop-culture references 4 Appearances in popular culture: Section Archive 5 Formatting of photos 6 Infobox & other edits 7 Too much white space 8 Peruvian saying 9 Pop culture section or not,

[edit] caption

Is that "a man" boating? Looks like a woman, with that haircut. - DavidWBrooks 18:02, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

We have three pretty similar photos on this page now - I would like to remove one, preferably the boat shot with all the tourists, which doesn't add any information already given by the top reed-boat shot. Any objections? - DavidWBrooks 14:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pop-culture references

A three-para section with random references to the lake made on the Donald Duck show, Beavis and Butthead, and Animaniacs -- we should hang our collective head in shame at the impression that gives of our efforts here: the Free Encyclopedia with articles about South American lakes written by cartoon fans. –Hajor 21:55, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you totally. It's definitely a Euro/Western point of view. I will delete that section. Mona-Lynn 00:25, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I started to resurrect the section, because there's nothing inherently wrong with silly pop-culture references or with Western points of view as long as we don't limit articles to silly pop-culture and Western point of view ... but then I read it over and, boy, it was incredibly lame. Keep it dead.

Still, I think we need to bring in the fact that Titicaca is far and away the most famous South American lake, and the only one that shows up in English-language pop culture, partly because of the giggle factor of its name in English. I'm just not sure how to word it. - DavidWBrooks 00:40, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

A discreet reference to inherently funny word or toilet humour, liberally sprinkled with qualifiers such as "puerile"? But please, just a one-liner. Nothing inherently wrong with silly pop-culture references... no, probably not. Except when we have stubby little article (hmm.. ok, better than a stub, but compare Great Salt Lake) on a major geographical feature in which the informational content is pretty much unbalanced by including *three paragraphs* of throwaway cartoon references: 40 facts about the lake, of which three or four are cartoon references. Where's "Lake Titicaca in literature"? Vargas Llosa or Arguedas must have given it a name-check. Was Parascotopetl reputed to be nearby? It must have been featured in a film or two. Is Animaniacs really the best we can do? –Hajor 01:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Clarification: David, that wasn't specifically directed at you. I just hadn't finished venting yet. I'm feeling much better now. –Hajor 13:12, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

No problem. I'm too old to even know what "Animaniacs" is. (Great Salt Lake is an excellent article, by the way.) - DavidWBrooks 13:39, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Animaniacs? Yeah, just something my kids watch... –Hajor 14:03, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello! I went ahead and deleted it because I strongly feel that pop-culture references in Western society are not relevant to non-Western items an international encyclopedia. We could include an entire section on pop culture references to Lake Titicaca in ALL societies (maybe there are some in Bollywood films? Brazilian telenovelas? German pop songs? etc.), which would make it more balanced, but what does such a section tell us about Lake Titicaca itself? Nothing. We should feel that we can demonstrate that this is a geographically significant lake with an important structuring role in the region's social, economic and political life in its own right. We shouldn't feel that we have to legimitate the lake's importance by demonstrating that the West has heard of it enough to trivalize it in cartoons. We must ask ourselves, how would a person from that region feel if they read the article and found that type of material in it? How would Americans feels if the listing on Milwaukee included an entire section on references to Milwaukee in Bollywood films or Brazilian telenovelas? This is trivia, not encyclopedia material. If people really feel they must set this information down, then I propose they create sub-sections within the articles about the cartoon programs themselves listing these obscure references. Including such information here strikes me as demeaning and ethnocentric. I hope people agree. Thanks, Mona-Lynn 01:34, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

(I'm responding to the above comment, but am not continuing the indentation because the column gets so skinny it's hard to read) Mona: Please don't remove "pop-culture" references in articles just because they aren't globally complete - instead, add more information to balance them. Many, many wikipedia articles had misbalanced information but over time, we add more details or more geographic balance or whatever, and they improve. That's how wikipedia works!

As for whether pop-culture references are appropriate to an encyclopedia: many times they aren't (as the reference here wasn't, because it was so trivial and scattered) but many times they are. A portion of the world only knows of Lake Titicaca through pop-culture references; information conveying that fact can be a valuable addition. We can't just call it "trivia" and toss it out.

I would suggest you don't get too worried about stamping out Western-centric points of view; have confidence that the growing global appeal of wikipedia will balance them over time. And how do you know that folks in, say, Puno wouldn't be tickled or enriched by a well-done reference to the way their local lake has drawn references in unexpected places? For example, I have read wikipeida articles obviously written by non-English-speaking people that go on and on about places having appeared in American movies. And personally, I'd love to see details about Bollywood references to Milwaukee: that is exactly the kind of fascinating information that traditional encyclopedias don't cover! - DavidWBrooks 17:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree, I don't see anything wrong with having a western slant in an English encyclopedia. And lets not be too full of ourselves- while the concept of wiki is revolutionary, the process creates an inherent credibility issue. Can you really see college professors ever accepting Wikipedia as a cited source for a research paper on Lake Titicaca? So being that our target audience is essentially the layman just looking for a little useful knowledge, I see nothing wrong with including some pop trivia.

That being said, I also agree with the prior comments that the article is grossly out of balance. While there is a good start on the cultural and anthropological aspects of the region, it is just that- a start. Much more needs to be said about the people and their history. Why is there is no mention of the unique biology of the lake? It is home to several species of animals that can't be found anywhere else in the world. In fact, it's one of the only high elevation lakes of its type with any native fish or amphibians. Most glacial lakes may be stocked with fish, but have no native fish. Isn't it home to the only true fresh water shark in the world? How did these animals get there? Isn't there more to be said about the geology of the lake? How was it formed? When? Is it the result of a natural dam, volcanic crater, glacial valley, oceanic dispacement, what? What's the water like? Is clean? Is it alkaline? What's the temp? The lake is remarkably deep. How much is known about the deepest parts? What's the weather like there? Isn't it significant that a lake over 10,000 ft never freezes? Or does it? Isn't it true that there's almost 0 precipitation there? Aren't there studies that could be cited on the future of the lake and its people? Is the lake changing? Is it being poluted? Is the wildlife stable or in danger? Is this thousand-year-old culture being industrialized? Is the native lifestyle being improved or corrupted by the tourism?

This information would be far more useful than citing each time the name has contributed to ignorant toilet humor on a cartoon or sitcom. Do we need to cite each time Damascus was the punch line of a joke? Beavis and Butthead also giggled when they saw a sign for Butte, MT. Was that a significant moment in the history Butte? Grand Teton literally means "large teat". Why don't we site the jokes there? Because no one that wants to learn more about the Tetons cares if a cartoon character made a passing joke about the name. Significant Hollywood references should be cited- but we're not talking about the setting for a Scorcese or Demille film here.

So enough ranting from me. Bottom line from me- this page is obviously a work in progress. There's nothing wrong with a little pop trivia, but there are far more important points that need to be contributed before the page is ready to dedicate space to the useless facts. Until I or someone else has time to insert some of the missing information about the lake, I am archiving the Pop Culture section below. I will cut and paste it below for easy insertion at a later date. --Atomicskier 18:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appearances in popular culture: Section Archive

This section was cut from the article on 11-17-06 to be reinserted at a later date when it compliments a more complete article. See Pop-culture Referrences discussion.--Atomicskier 18:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• A segment of the Disney feature Saludos Amigos featured Donald Duck at the lake.
• Portions of the name sound like vulgarities in English and Spanish, leading to its use in various jokes. Titicaca is the lake that Cornholio, alter-ego of Beavis of MTV's animated series Beavis and Butt-head, claims to come from, although he believes the lake is located in Nicaragua.
• The cartoon Animaniacs featured the lake in a short song.
• Simpsons character Superintendent Chalmers goes on vacation to Lake Titicaca in episode AABF16, The Old Man and The "C" Student.
• In the motion picture Groundhog Day, the lake is one of the lakes Bill Murray correctly answers while watching Jeopardy.
• The character of Edwina Monsoon in the British television series Absolutely Fabulous, refers to her daughter's friend Sarah as Titicaca when she cannot remember her name.
• In an episode of the sitcom Scrubs, the Janitor, who was pretending to be German, was asked why Frankfurt and Hamburg had nothing to do with hot dogs or hamburgers. He responded, "Why is your Lake Titicaca not filled with boobs and poop?"

[edit] Formatting of photos

Would someone please be so kind as to fix formatting of photos to get rid of white spaces? I don't know how. Thank you! Mona-Lynn 00:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

• Well, I tried. I don't know if it's perfect or not. I am thinking perhaps the photos could be added to a "gallery" below Appearances in Pop Culture. Just a thought. Em3rald 07:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox & other edits

As you can see, I overhauled the format and layout of this page. I also added the infobox. The facts and figures in the infobox (and the changes I made in the article itself) are from the World Lakes Database, so they are reliable. If anyone would like to try their hand at adjusting the layout, have at it! I like the current layout enough to leave it, but I can understand why someone might want to muddle with it. In my opinion, the formatting is sufficient to call it good. If anyone can put in additional references, or inline citations, please do so. Cheers!! Em3rald 07:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• PS. I you would like to join WP:LAKES please feel free to add yourself to the list of contributors! If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask :D Em3rald 07:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too much white space

There was a recent revision that left too much white space. I think it would be better to revert to the previous version. --Atomicskier 04:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peruvian saying

I have heard it said - from two independent sources (i.e. folks from Peru) - that there is a saying in the schools there, "Titi, for Peru. For Bolivia, caca!" Can anyone verify this, and also comment on its notability? Apparently the western world and northern hemishphere are not the only ones who derive amusement from the name of this lake... And for the record, a 1981 map of peruvian metallomineralogical deposits draws the national border through the lake and its label, viz. "LAGO TITI |CACA" 74.61.119.244 10:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I heard that joke from a tour guide during a visit a couple of years ago. But it was a joke for English speakers, playing off the English sounds from the term, not an etymological explanation. - DavidWBrooks 19:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop culture section or not,

There should at least be a SENTENCE in the 'name' section along the lines of "The name generates titters from anglophones, as it sounds like a combination of slang for breasts and faeces"