Talk:La Malinche

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To the author of the original article (The Epop?)--- didn't mean to rewrite so much when I started, merely to correct or dispute a few things. Been almost living with Cortes and Marina, lately, and I guess I got carried away.

If you have sources on some of what I took out, for example that Marina was given to "Tlaxalteca" (sic?) in Tabasco or about her age, I'd really love to know about it.

-Dhermit

Contents 1 modern myths 2 Origin of the name "La Malinche" 3 "Malinche", according Bernal, was Cortés 4 Merger with Donna Malinche 5 The Picture

[edit] modern myths

I know La Malinche is still an important myth in modern Mexico- could there be a link to important myths in the modern world? It is a great tool to compare cultures with, the stories a nation keeps telling says a lot about what they themselves value.

it is important to note that la malinche is not a myth, no one disputes that she was real; however, she has become a mythical archetype. so, a comparison like you suggest perhaps should be to other real figures who have gone on to become archetypes. uri budnik 03:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the name "La Malinche"

I think we ought to mention that the word 'mal' is Spanish for 'bad' or 'evil', and therefore always creates a negative connotation in the mind of a native Spanish speaker, even if the word in question has nothing to do with 'badness' or evil. The prefix 'mal-' is used the same way as 'mis-' or 'mal-' in English, so when it occurs at the beginning of a word also carries a negative connotation. That la Malinche's name features the word 'mal' so prominently, and may possibly be a factor in the adherence of this name to this personality, ought to be mentioned as a factor concerning her in the Mexican national consciousness. However it is interesting to note that there is no such negative impression from that sound in indigneous languages. Makes me wonder how much the linguistics of the matter has influenced the perception of this historic personage. Rockero 21:59, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Malinche", according Bernal, was Cortés

The name "Malinche" is explained in page 202 of the book "Historia
verdadera de la conquista de la nueva España" by Bernal Diaz del 
Castillo, one of Hernán Cortés' men. 

"Malinche" was not Doña Marina, but Cortés himself. Marina, her Spanish 
name, was "Malin" for the aboriginals, and "Malinche" meant just 
something like "Malin's captain".  
telmo 19:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What telmo says is true. It's on page 121 in my Díaz. Now we'll have to figure out who began using it in reference to Malintzín...--Rockero 07:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Bernal Díaz is not noted for his understanding of the intricacies of the nahuatl language, indeed he seems to have misunderstood most of it and gives many notoriously false etymologies and translations of nahuatl words throughout his account. There are two possible ways that Malinche received her name. One is that her name was malinalli "grass" in nahuatl and that the reason the spaniards gace her the name Marina was the resemblance of this spanish name to her original name. The other possibility is that they just named her randomly Marina. Anyway Since nahuatl has no /r/ sound they quite consistently exchanged r with l in their pronunciations thus making her malina. When speaking to someone respected as she definitely were judging from all accounts it would be unthinkable not to use the honorific suffix -tzin with the name. Nahuatl speakers would thus have called her malintzin. This word was then misheard by spaniards and rendered "malinche" (just like the other suffix -tli was always rendered -te in the hispanicized versions of nahuatl words (e.g. tecolotl > tecolote etc.)). When Bernal Diaz says this it is unfounded or based on a misunderstanding on his part. Maunus 19:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with Donna Malinche

I support the merger or alternatively just deleting the "donna malinche" article which is not compettive with the material in this one. The title indeed is wrong, (as most of you probably know "donna" is italian not spanish and not used about Doña Marina)Maunus 19:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Good call. The Donna Malinche article has been redirected to here now, and agree that there was nothing worth salvaging from that article which is not already covered better here.--cjllw | TALK 08:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Picture

The picture used to illustrate this article is from Lienzo de Tlaxcala and I am fairly sure that the Xaltelolco here is the one near Tlaxcala and not Tlatelolco, which only some sources say was earlier called xaltelolco. The reading of the glyphs also corroborate this interpretation: Citlalpopocatzin is named in other places as a lord of tlaxcalan affiliation, not of Tlatelolcan/Mexica.

Description of the picture from Lienzo de TlaxcalaMaunus 20:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Good call, Maunus. Yes, several online resources did say that Tlatelolco was also (or originally) named Xatelolco, but that link you found definitely points to the Tlaxcala town/village. I did not even think that that mound of sand would be a glyph! And I'm going to rush off and update the History of Tlaxcala article with this new information as well. Thanks, Madman 03:54, 20 September 2006 (UTC)