Talk:Kosovo Province, Ottoman Empire
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[edit] Comments
[edit] Map
My thanks to whomever placed the maps on the article, it's just the kind of thing I can never find when creating articles! Celtmist 05-12-05
"....a new idea of nationalism was surfacing originating from Thessaloniki and gaining popularity among a potential elite group of intellects accross the region, and that idea was the creation of a Macedonian state, incorporating all Slavs within that area as a rival to both Bulgarian and Serbian states. This movement was none other than the IMORO activities which prevail to this day in the F.Y.R.O.M." I do not understand, which nationalism was originating from Thessaloniki? If we know the character of IMORO, we will answer of this question in two ways: 1 Bulgarian nationalism (Nevertheless that IMORO purpose was autonomous (independent)Macedonia and Thrace (NB!, before 1912); 2. No nationalism in ethnic sense - only struggle for autonomous (independent)Macedonia and Thrace and for rights of all (Christian) inhabitants - not only Slavs. In both of cases there wasn't Macedonistic ideology yet in IMARO, i.e. the ideas for Macedonic natonality separate from Bulgarians or Greeks. Therefore I suggest to erase these sentences. --AKeckarov 15:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
- Macedonian nationalism did originate from Thessaloniki and I too did assume that IMRO spearheaded the movement. If anything, delete the bit about IMRO not the idea about 'Macedonianism'. Of course, if it were true that there was a popular movement that was NOT ethnic, it should have incorporated ALL of historical Macedonia, with all its Greeks, Slavs, Albanians and the like, and possibly then base itself on the Swiss model. All history has tought us is that a Macedonian state now exists formed on a part of the historical region and that the Slav population who are about 68% constitute the primary national group. The point made on the article anyhow simply tells that the people of Skopje (for example) wiere split between being Bulgarian or Serbian as BOTH groups were fighting for influence over them and finally they fell to the Serbs. By 1943, there is a widespread feeling of being Macedonian among certain Slavic peoples in the region of Macedonia and as a result, they are awarded a republic. I'm in favour of doing more research before making immediate changes to this article. Batsos 30.xii.05
I just want to correct that to the Serbs fell only part of the geographical region Macedonia (Vardar Macedonia, present Republic of Macedonia). I agree that there was some macedonistic feelings in Macedonia by 1943, but it was mostly in Vardar Macedonia and it was undoubted predominant after "award" a Yugoslav republic in 1944. In Pirin Macedonia the inhabitants kept their Bulgarian consciousness and this is obviously after fell of Comminism and free census, when fall of the pressure to be Macedonian (1944-about 1960)or to be Bulgarian (about 1960-1989).--AKeckarov 16:06, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I see your point AKeckarov. Well there was some underground Macedonian movement between the two world wars. Of course, modern Macedonian nationalists will be as anti-Yugoslav as their radical counterparts in Slovenia, Bosnia, Montenegro and even Serbia today. I know this site is not about Bulgaria but there was even there at one time a pro-Macedonian movement opposed to Sofia but certainly since World War II, that has been silent. They now see themselves as a Bulgarian subdivision BUT feel that the REST of Macedonia should come with them! Whilst however, there was opposition to Sofia's rule (before World War II mainly), Pirin was split with so much of the population being pro-Sofia and the rest being, not so much pro-Yugoslavia, as pro-all of Macedonia and 'STICK two figers up at everyone else!' - all this even though they were still a single nation of people. Anyhow, the point on the article was that a pro-Macedonian movement WAS forming. Whether or not this was IMORO is another matter. It is a fact that IMORO did eventually take over the pro-Macedonian national interests contrary to all surrounding states, as for the defend-Christians, not just Slavs - well anyone can see that the whole project IS Slavic driven, and given their way, would do little to extend democracy and freedom to ethnic Greeks, Turks and Albanians also entitled to the same status. See the adjustment on the aerticle Akeckarov and tell me what you think. Celt 31.12.05
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 08:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Requested move
Kossovo Vilayet → Kosovo Province, Ottoman Empire – need for standard Ottoman subdivsion title format and standard spelling for Kosovo. See WP:RM page for similar requests. Sample: Bosnia Province, Ottoman Empire. See Subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire for details of Ottoman subdivisions and Category:Provinces of the Ottoman Empire for list of pages.
[edit] Voting
- Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
- Oppose Pointless pursuit of an unnecessary uniformity. If this disambiguated, it might be worth doing; but there is no need for a long name, which will usually require piping or redirection. Septentrionalis 21:01, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Support for changing the name but I guess we have to change it to 'Kosova' not to 'Kosovo'. This is an Ottoman Province and therefore, I guess, should be changed to its Turkish spelling, Kosova --Quinlan Vos 11:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Support - Ottoman provinces went by a variety of names. Some were eyalets, some were eyalets and later vilayets, some were just vilayets, and others had special names like khedivate, sharifate, and mutasarrifate. For consistency across time and space, the English term province covers it best as does the English spelling of Kosovo. LuiKhuntek 07:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose I think that name of the article about Bosnia province should not be model for other articles, but that article is the one which should change its name into "Eyalet of Bosnia", "Vilayet of Bosnia" or something like that. PANONIAN (talk) 04:01, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Support. —Nightstallion (?) 08:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
