Talk:Koryo-saram

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Contents

[edit] Post-Soviet states

In the intro, would linking to Post-Soviet states be better than saying "former Soviet Union"? --- Hong Qi Gong 02:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A bit of history and mention of some notable Soviet Koreans

Here's an article with a bit on the history of Korean migration to the Soviet Union[1]. It mentions some notable Soviet Koreans fighting on the side of the Soviets against Japan. --- Hong Qi Gong 02:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Kim Gyung Chun (金擎天/김경천) seems to be the best choice out of all of them since (not to mention the most interesting --- even graduated from a Japanese military academy, at one point). He became rooted in Soviet society, raised a family there, etc. Too bad, as far as I can tell, he doesn't even appear once the Korean wiki; the only mention of him is at ja:陸軍士官学校_(日本) in the list of graduates. (the guy mentioned at ko:대한민국 제16대 국회의원 목록 is not him but some contemporary politician with a similar name). Anyway, I'll put him under Prominent Koryo-saram pointing to this link. The other revolutionaries mentioned in that article, like An Jung-geun didn't really acquire an identity as Soviet Koreans or a place in society, they just lived in exile in Russia (PRE-revolutionary Russia, at that). cab 13:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sakhalin Korean

It occured to me that because of the nature of what happened to them, there's probably even enough materials to have an article just on the Sakhalin Koreans themselves. [2] --- Hong Qi Gong 21:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea, done. See Sakhalin Koreans. cab 11:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Immigration to Siberia and Russian Far East

I added a little more to the "Immigration to the Russian Far East" section and renamed it "Immigration to the Russian Far East and Siberia". I wonder if the article's organisation needs a little tweaking, because the Korean immigration to Russia and their subsequent deportation does not apply to the Sakhalin Koreans. And are there other Koreans in the former Soviet States that also did not come from the 1800s immigration and then deportation? --- Hong Qi Gong 01:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is it ready?

Do you think it's time to release the article to public space so other people can contribute to it? I think I'm going to create a Category called "Overseas Korean". --- Hong Qi Gong 23:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One-hour documentary

Found this one-hour documentary on Koryo Saram[3]. --- Hong Qi Gong 22:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! I wonder if we can find enough material for a "Media representations of Koryo-saram" section to actually address similarities and differences w/the Korean American experience. So far, can only think of:
  • That old Soviet film "Kolkholz Avant Garde" they mention on the documentary webpage
  • Victor Tsoi (aside from singing, I think he appears in some movies too)
  • There was a Koryo-saram character named Marina in one of Andrey Kurkov's books, either Death and the Penguin or its sequel. She was the wife of some Moscow mafioso.
Also I wonder what Korean surname they're talking about when they mention "Ten" like Elena Ten ... bloody Cyrillizations ... cab 01:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resources in other wikis

Aargh, I can't believe I didn't find out about these until we almost finished the page ...

Oh well, let me see if there's any good information in there that we can incorporate. cab 01:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the Korean article isn't that informative. The intro says that they are Korean people in the Post-Soviet States. There's an empty culture section and an empty history section. The language section, I'm not really sure, but I think it basically says that they use Korean, Russian, Ukrainian, and also a "Central Asia" dialect of Korean. There's actually an article on this supposed dialect, but it's only got a couple of sentences that, again from what I can tell, basically says that it's Korean with a historically older vocabulary.
Then there's a "famous people" section. There're only two listed that actually have articles of their own though. One of them is Victor Tsoi, and he's already listed here. The other is some politician in Ussuriysk. His notability is questionable though, the Korean article on him only has two sentences, with no sources.
There is a really good link on the Korean article though, and I've added it to this article. --- Hong Qi Gong 02:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
The politician from Ussuriysk sounds like it must be Valery Kan (Валерий Кан), a local MP; he's moderately notable, but not in a good way, for assaulting the Soulfly's lead singer's stepdaughter (reportedly while drunk and trying to hit on her) and causing them to cancel their Russian tour. Then he used his parliamentary immunity to avoid charges.[4] cab 02:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Koreisky

The written/typed Russian translation of Koreisky is showing up as question marks even when the browser is using Unicode encoding. Should it be showing in Unicode, or is Unicode not able to display that? --- Hong Qi Gong 01:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Oops, that was just my browser screwing up and transmitting junk. Fixed. cab 01:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the term

Perhaps the article should mention when the term was coined, who coined it, and whether it can be seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid taking either side in the han(guk) (RoK) vs. joseon (DPR, PRC) name issue. If I knew the answers, I would do it myself. 23:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other famous personalities

Should we also mention Kostya Tszyu and Yuliy Kim? KonstKaras 13:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

anything about their religion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.197 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 3 November 2006.

Well, missionaries from South Korea are responsible for a lot of the upsurge in ethnic-oriented activities among Central Asian Koreans (language classes, etc.) On the other hand, I've read a few accounts by Koryo-saram which state they were driven away from the Protestant churches due to the "ethnic didacticism" of the South Koreans (basically, the SK mentality that there was only one proper way for the Koryo-saram to express their identity as Koreans, that being by following everything South Koreans did). Also see [5]. cab 23:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autonym

How outdated is the (Soviet?) term 고려사람/Корё сарам? The Russian 2002 census lists only five “Корё сарам” as opposed to 148,534 “Корейцы”.[6] Wikipeditor 20:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I suspect this is an artifact of the census procedure itself, or at least people's habits in responding to the census, since on the internal passport, the nationality would be listed as Корейцы and not Корё сарам, so people responded to the census as such. (For those who don't know, the Russian census actually records whatever the respondent writes in the Nationality field; it's not just a multiple-choice question). See also Russification#Some factors impeding Russification. cab 01:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tajikistan

My only source at present is Lee (2000, p. 139), but according to him there were only a few thousand between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, so any migration out of Tajikistan must have been on a fairly small scale. Although I reckon the info about the Tajik Civil War would still be useful, if it can be sourced. -- Visviva 14:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Expanded this section. Their population was as high as 13,000 in 1989, and one guy (not sure about reliability though, so I didn't put this one in) claims 18,000 in 1992 [7] cab 06:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Resources

Found these:

Actually I think most of the information in those is already present here, thanks to CaliforniaAliBaba's remarkable work. But they might still have some value for cross-checking. Before you ask ... neither mentions where the name "Koryo-saram" comes from. I'm starting to wonder if it might not actually predate the deportations, and have something to do with the Anti-Korean Laws of the early 20th century ("oh, we're not Chosenjin, we're Koryo-saram!") Just a thought; no idea how to check it. -- Visviva 14:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Novukorut Bay

Not sure about this toponym; "novukorut" gets 1 GHit (this article) and "новукорут" (dumb transcription, dunno if I'm spelling it right) gets none. Any ideas? cab 22:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pic

The article starts with a picture of Yuliy Kim, but there's no caption to identify him. It would be great if the picture was captioned, because lots of people might not know who he is. Zombiflava 21:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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