Talk:Konkani people
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[edit] Ambiguity in Title
The term Konkani refers to two different identities: 1 The Konkani speaking people 2 The people who live in the Konkan administrative division of Maharashtra. The second identity includes both Konkani and Marathi speaking populace But there is an important difference. Konkanis and Marathis do not constitute a singular ethnic entity
While speaking in Marathi the Konkan region is referred to as Kokan (please note the difference) I suggest that two different pages be created instead of one, to avoid ambiguity
The Konkani people (linguistic)
The Kokani people (geographical)
I would like to see some consent on this sereation before we start rather than have an editing war Deepak D'Souza 05:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- Reverted 3 changes done by anonymous user on IP 59.182.93.249 . Request you to refer to the above discussion as to why I have done so --Deepak D'Souza 11:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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- No personal attacks please. And what PA did I do ? Anyway, the Konkani people of Maharashtra must be mentioned. 59.182.21.191 12:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Good to know you have finally decided to dicuss the issue.
- "Mr. D'Sooza" . Is this what you call good manners? Would you like it if someone made fun of your name?
- Please read my comment above. I have clearly mentioned that the Konkani speaking people and the people of the Konkan Vibhag are two distinct entities with a few groups in common. That is why I wish to create two seperate pages. I haven't said that they should not be mentioned. When Maharashtrians call someone as a Konkani(or more precisely Kokani) they reffer to a person living in the Konkan Vibhag regardless of whether he/she is a Konkani speaker or Marathi. When a Konkani speaker reffers to another person as a Konkani (not Kokani) he/she specifically means a Konkani speaker who could be from Mahharashtra, Goa, Karnataka or Kerala. The article as it existed before I made changes did not clearly differentiate between the two.
- With this purpose in mind I decided to create another article people of the Konkan region. I was waiting for some dicussion , but no one came forward. And when you came, you started redoing the changes without bothering to explain it.I waited till you made three edits before reverting them. Before that I put messages on your user page three times in order to get your attention . But since it is an IP you would not have known. Anyway now that you have finally come to the table, lets be civil. Please register yourself and sign in so that we can discuss it as per wikipedia policies. Kindly refrain from doing any more edits till we sort out this issue. --Deepak D'Souza 13:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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- There is no need for seperate pages on Marathi Kokanis and Konkani Kokanis. The point is, their history is intertwined and although the language may be different, they are very much related. Also the Marathi word "Kokani" is anglicised to "Konkani". Again, there are a few people in Maharashtra's Konkan coast, who speak Konkani. Also many are there in Goa who speak Konkani but are also well-versed in Marathi. I know, you have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots, but do not hate Marathi so much, brother. I respect your culture and your language. Maharashtrians are not anti-Konkani. 59.182.2.19 07:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
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- You are wrong in saying that "Konkani" is the Anglicized version of "Kokani". That is how Konkani speakers spell it. As I mentioned above , the semantics of both terms are different, and hence it would be best to seperate them. Not all Goans speak Marathi, there are Marathis in Goa and there Konkanis. Some Konkanis are bilingual with Marathi. Bilingual Konkanis do not become Marathis, just as a Marathi who speaks Hindi does not become a Hindi. And again in Karnataka, which has the highest percentage of Konkani speakers, Konkanis are bilingual with Tulu on a daily basis, and even trilingual since they have studied Kannada in school. Lastly, the percentage of Konkani-Marathi bilinguals is very small. I do not have exact figures but I will pessimistically guess at 10-15% .
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- Your statement that "you have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots," is very condescending and goes against the "Assume Good Faith" policy of Wikipedia. What you imply is that as a person I am not mature and rational enough to make my own decisions. I do not hate Marathi, having lived in Mumbai from birth, I have studied Marathi and respect its beauty. But I get fed up by the condescending attitude of a few people who try to demean Konkani by referring to it as a dialect of Marathi. And you seem to display the same attitude when you say that I have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots. Let me assure you that I have made my decisions after a lot of reading and research.
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- I agree that the history of Konkanis and Marathis has intertwined at many points , but that does not mean it is the same. Again going by your logic, I can make an erroneous inference that since Marathis and Kanadigas or Marathis and Gujaratis have had intertwining history they are the same. Most Konkanis live outside Konkan vibhag and have little in common with Marathis. Never have Konkani speaking people regarded their language as a dialect of Marathi , or themselves as Marathis.
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- I have asked you to refrain from making any edits until this matter is resolved. But you have gone ahead and made changes. It will not be very difficult for me to revert them but I will not do so since I wish to avoid an edit war. I suggest that this matter be put for arbitration. --Deepak D'Souza 09:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sneha Shashikant Shanbhag
Sneha Shashikant Shanbhag has been added as a "Eminent Konkani" twice, once by 18.251.5.127, and again by Diwakarshukla. Apart from the fact that she is studying at Singapore-MIT Alliance I cannot find out anything about her. Before re-adding please make a case as to why you think she is notable per the guideine. AntiVan 00:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of Eminent Konkanis
This list is rather amusing, it has may non Konkanis.
Leander Paes is not Konkani, he is a Bengali. Someone must have mistakenly thought that he was a Goan. Dom Moraes, to my knowledge is an Anglo Indian not a Konkani.
There are too many Konkani Muslims in the list, most of whom do not really deserve the title eminent For instance Roghay maybe a Konkani Muslim surname so that does not mean that Mrs Roghay (Ms Roghay who?) desrves to be called "eminent".
The criteria for eminent should be that they are well known outside their community ,not just within the community. If they are not well known among all Konkanis , let alone Indians , why bother?
Lastly , with all due respects to the great Johnny Walker, the Wikipedia article does not mention that he was a Konkani. rather his birthplace is Indore, so why is he in the list?
Deepak D'Souza 05:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
1. Leander Paes is listed at Anglo-Indian sites as such. However, the word Anglo-Indian itself is ambiguous. One can be both Anglo-Indian and Konkani, and so I do not see problems counting him in so long as his family migrated from Konkani areas.
2. I think it better to be inclusive rather than exclusive. It should not matter if some one is born outside Konkani areas so long as one's parentage is Konkani (those who spoke konkani and resided in such areas at some stage. Call them ethnic Konkanis or cultural Konkanis.
3. I was surprised but pleased to see that many prominent folk listed were Konkanis (Antulay, Zakharia,...). I hope their inclusion in the list is legitimate.
Gangolly 14:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)Jagdish Gangolly
- Thank you for your comments, Gangolly Here is my feedback.
1. I admit that I was unaware that Leander was born in Goa. But not everyone born in Goa is a Konkani. What I had HEARD was that Leander was a Bengali and that there are Lusitanised Bengali Catholics. I ASSUMED that he was one among them. ANother thing that contributed to my opinion was Mahima Choudhary's interview in a newspaper a couple of years back that he was a Bengali.
with regard to being an Anglo Indian , I doubt it is applicable to Leander. The Indian Govt clearly stats that to be described as an Anglo Indian you have to have an European ancestor in your paternal lineage. Leander's father is not Anglo. His mother may be (going by her family name), so technically Leander is not an Anglo Indian.
Lastly I have seen quite a few of his interviews. He hasnt talked much about his ancestry. Even Goan websites do not list him as Goan. If someone can clarify, I am willing to change my opinion.
For the time being I will place MY opinion about his ancestry in limbo :-). Ditto for Dom Moraes.
2. I agree, a Konkani is a Konkani regardless of where they are born. But here is a small issue: do they regard themselves as Konkanis and love their culture?. I have come across many Konkanis who have forsaken their culture. At one time I was among them too .
It is not uncommon for people who migrate from one region to another to get subsumed into the local culture. Konkani Muslims claim ancestry from Arabs who settled along the coastline. Now they are Konkanis, not Arabs. Indeed Konkani peoples consist of many such clans which adopted Konkani language. Then there are Konkanis who have forgotten their origins and no longer regard themselves as Konanis.
3. Antulay, I am sure. His name is a typical Konkani Muslim surname. Zakaria, I am not sure.
-Deepak D'Souza 06:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Konkani Wikipedia
Dear Konknni friends,
Konkani Wikipedia has been started and been in test stage since August 2006
Kindly contribute towards the Konkani wikipedia. We intend to make it a multiscript
Wikipeida. At least tri-script with Roman ,Devanangiri and Kannada scripts since these are the most popular ones.
We would like to get more articles/templates in place. We also need volunteers to do the thankless and boring job of transliterating it to different scripts .
As of now only two members are making active contributions. The more the merrier. Your contribution is vital to its success.
The url is given below:
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Konkani_Wikipedia
Dev boro dees deum! -Deepak D'Souza 05:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] User: 59.182.93.249
Please mind your language! Wikipedia does not approve personal attacks and you could be banned. Second, you have mande changes without discussing it and without providing any reason. Refer to the sub topic "Ambiguity in title" above. Third, please register as a user and go through Wikipedias policies before you start editing again.
--Deepak D'Souza 12:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] User:209.172.74.45
Please understand that Wikipedia articles, including the External Links column are not a place to advertise. The External links column is meant to link to the relevant external web pages that enhance the knowledge of the article. Your link to http://www.communitywhitepages.net/listings/ does not meet this criterion. Please check the WP:EL guidlines.
The best option for you would be to contact websites dedicated to specific communities and post messages to specific chatgroups.
I will not revert this link for the time being , pending the resolution of another dispute. But someone else may. --Deepak D'Souza 05:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
