Talk:Kodori Valley

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shouldn't something be mentioned about Russian accusations that Georgia is harboring or not stopping Chechen terrorists in this region?--Eupator 18:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You're probably confusing it with the Pankisi gorge. An alleged 2001 Chechen presence in the Kodori valley is discussed in the article on Georgian-Abkhaz conflict.--Kober 18:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes you're right.--Eupator 19:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abkhazia Peaceful?

I disagree with the definition of Kodori and Gali being two “troublespots” while the rest of Abkhazia is “peaceful.” This is nothing but Abkhzaian POW. First, these two regions are the only two region of Abkhazia that are relatively safe for ethnic Georgians, while the rest of Abkhazia is a real “troublespot” for any Georgian national (Georgians simply get killed if they go outside Gali or Kodori). Second, the rest of Abkhazia is by no means peaceful. People (mostly tourists) get kidnapped there for ransomed all the time. There is virtually no rule of law (quite often the kidnappers have everything worked out with the police), and human slavery is being practiced (mostly on citrus plantations). Thus, while Gali and Kodori are trouble spots for Abkhazians (and possibly Russians), the rest of Abkhazia is a trouble spot for Georgians (as well as other non-Abkhazian nationals). Irakliy81 15:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Gamarjoba, Irakliy. Completely agree with you. I justed wanted to restore the context of the passage removed by Rebecca. I think the current version is quite neutral and objective.--Kober 15:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Gamarjoba Kober, I’m glad that the current version has persisted. Thank you very much for maintaining this article. Irakliy81 19:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Kober is the man! Sosomk 02:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent move

Dear Petri Krohn, your recent moves created a mess as the article's title was not in accordance with the text. Upper Abkhazia is a recently created administrative entity, while the Kodori Valley is a purely geographic term without any officially defined administrative boundaries. So I see no POV here. If you wish to have a separate article on the Valley as a geographic area, you are welcome to create it. Thanks, --Kober 04:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted your copy paste move. If you want to rename the article, you should follow the appropriate procedure, and seek a consensus on the talk pages. Doing a copy-paste move destroys the articles edit history, and can be seen as a form of vandalism.

The "renaming" of Kodori Valley to "Upper Abkhazia" by the so-called de-jure Government of Abkhazia is a political move intended to undermine the legitimity of the "rebel" govenment of Abkhazia. Wikipedia should be very critical of such militant POV-pushing. -- Petri Krohn 22:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I have also redirected Upper Abkhazia to de-jure Government of Abkhazia. So far the name is nothing more than a new name the "de-jure" governments uses to refer to itself. If I start hearing the BBC using it, I might reconsider my possition.

P.P.S. If you want to expand Wkipedia content, you might write an article on Upper Abkhazia, the political entity, not the geographic valley. I doubt hovewer whether it would survive a without being merged to de-jure Government of Abkhazia. -- Petri Krohn 22:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

This action by User:Petri Krohn is unacceptable for NPOV compliance. First of all, this region has been officially called Upper Abkhazia as per recognition of Georgian government. This is a separate region of Abkhazia and has nothing to do with de jure government. This was a simple vandalism, which is definitely un-productive and harmful. Do not merge this region into any political entity. And refrain from POV statements and vandalizing the content of this article. Provide sources and references for your claims. Also please review Wikipedia policy on NPOV. Thanks for your contributions. Ldingley 16:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Before accusing me of "militant POV-pushing", please be careful about your own bias. Undermine the "legitimity" of the Abkhaz separatists? Huh! Is this statement not POV? Kodori and other parts of Upper Abkhazia are de jure and de facto parts of Georgia, and what you call "the so-called de jure government" is the only internationally recognized authority on Abkhazia's territory. What you are trying here is just an attempt to destroy the content you disagree with. --Kober 05:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

P.S. For the sake of a compromise, I'll proceed and create a seprate article on Upper Abkhazia. It is survivable and expandable and please don't destroy it. --Kober 05:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

P.S.S. Btw, Googling already gives 947 hits for "Upper Abkhazia" -wikipedia.--Kober 06:08, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Petri, refrain from Personal attacks. I will report to the administrator if you don't ceace to make attacks on other users and stop implementing your POVs on this article. Please review Wikipedia:Words to avoid, Wikipedia:NPOV tutorial and Wikipedia:What is a troll. Ldingley 16:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Spare people the threats, Ldingley. You were both out of line; Kober has since come up with a suitable compromise. Rebecca 06:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Im not threatening anyone. Please do not make false accusations. Im reminding Wikipedia policies, which you might be interested to. Ldingley 15:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm well aware of the appropriate policies. I'm just asking you to take heed of them too, and stop threatening action against other users when you've both been violating the same policies. Rebecca 02:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, Please what threatening are you guys talking about? Can we define the threatening first? Ms. Rebecca, if you are that experienced and sophisticated user you should be able to tell the difference between the outstanding scholars like LDingley and Vandals, who are just full of crap. In addition, WTF? is not a language that you should be using in an academical discussion. [[1]] Sosomk 02:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Georgian friends, please don't try to wikilawyer an arbitrator emeritus. Rebecca's efforts at normalizing this discussion are enormously appreciated. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 07:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Calm down guys! The problem has already been resolved and there's no need for arbitration. Since the start of the recent political crisis, many Georgia-related articles have come under repeated POV attacks and I understand the emotions of Luis and Soso. The content of the article as it is now is quite neutral. As for Petri's strange redirects, one should make a distinction among a government (de-jure Government of Abkhazia), a geographic area (Kodori Valley) and an administrative entity (Upper Abkhazia). So all the three articles are needed and potentially expandable. --Kober 07:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)