Talk:Knights Hospitaller

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[edit] Bringing order to Orders

The family of Orders of St John is confusing. There is a good deal of chaos in their organization on Wikipedia. I thought I'd bring a proposal here (originally proposed by User:Boven who now seems to be inactive). I'd like to see the articles written and organized thusly:

• Knights Hospitaller (covering the general broad history of the order from its beginnings in the Holy Land to present)
• Alliance of Orders of St John (a description of the structure and purpose of this group)

• Order of Malta (the catholic order with extended history from the beginnings to present)

The Four Main Protestant Orders

• Balley Brandenburg ("Johanniterorden") (Germany)
• Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem (England, etc.)
• Johanniterorden I Sverige (Sweden)
• Johanniter Orde in Nederland (Netherlands)

The Four non-German Commanderies of the Bailiwick of Brandenburg

• Swiss Commandery of the Order of St John (Switzerland)
• French Commandery of the Order of St John (France)
• Hungarian Commandery of the Order of St John (Hungary)
• Finnish Commandery of the Order of St John (Finland)

I think that an organization this way would be helpful. We could also add a category such as [[Category:St John Orders]] or something like that to group them all together, as well as a possible template showing their relationships. What say ya'll?--Eva ^bd 19:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Where does the Scottish John Arbuthnott, 16th Viscount of Arbuthnott fit into this? - Kittybrewster 22:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It all looks quite reasonable, except, as Kittybrewster draws our attention to, the parenthetical "(England)". The order started as a resuscitation of the English Langue is not restricted to England and is now active in many Commonwealth countries and the US. John Arbuthnott was the Prior of the Scottish Priory of this order. JPD (talk) 09:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Because they are not separate orders recognised by the Alliance. Priories of recognised members are sub units. Priories or claimed priories outside of the members aren't recognised internationally. 86.134.78.14 10:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't implying that they should be listed separately, just pointing out that the "(England)" could be read as implying that they are separate. JPD (talk) 12:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Good points about the VOSJ. I just put England for convenience, but it certainly covers Scotland, the US, Canada, South Africa, etc. These would all be included in an article for the VOSJ. --Eva ^bd 11:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)