User talk:Kleinzach

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[edit] soubrette/charakterwhatever

charakter or however its spelt means a comic role, a soprano who engages in comic roles is a soubrette (they also do girly characters). If you think that's bizarre you should check out the hoher bass, it is apparently a separate role from the bass-baritone but it isn't according to the bass baritone article. I'm exasperated by this. You wouldn't believe the reading I've been doing to fix all the fach articles, all the opera terminology articles. I'm also dealing with people who have weird fixations with putting pop singers into opera weight categories. It's... an experience.--I'll bring the food 22:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh i did not mean to say they only do comic roles, but i believe they do a lot of them for women. Thank you for making me clarify tho, i'll only sound like an idiot otherwise. I believe the German article had some innaccuracies. I've just altered one, Hoherbass (bass baritone) does not equate to helden baritone (heroic baritone) - according to Grove music (which is a good source).--I'll bring the food 22:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I found this [1] which is incredibly helpful. Would you say it is a good source? It's certainly helpful, more-so than Grove music which is limited on German Facher or what-have-you.--I'll bring the food 23:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Good news Kleinzach. I found out that books by Richard Miller are in English and fully use German Opera facher as classifications. I shall obtain the books and rewrite the fach article at some point (don't hold out for any time soon though).--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 03:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, I recently obtained "The male choir of St. Petersburg" and I reccomend it, it's got really powerful choral oktavists/profundo in it.--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 03:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Info box code

Thanks for the code. Have a look at Mitridate, re di Ponto for what I've done with it - any thoughts? Also, do you think that the box is best down at the bottom, as there, or (which I think better) at top right, as in Il re pastore (the latter is what I cribbed from the Prokofiev box and doesn't use your code, though I can modify it to do so, I think). It seems to me that we need to use one or the other, but not both. Best. --GuillaumeTell 22:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've fixed the wide box in the Mitridate article and have dramatically reduced the width of the box in Il re pastore by changing it to one opera per line - have a look. I still have a preference for having it at top right rather than at the bottom, where it might get missed, especially in a long article. Any idea whether there's some way of eliminating (most of the) white space above the text of the article? --GuillaumeTell 17:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, please do see if there's some way of eliminating or reducing the white space, and feel free to alter Template:Mozart Operas - it's not my personal property! Other infoboxes seem to line up OK - see, for example, the one in Osmotherley, North Yorkshire. I've rearranged it chronologically (according to the order in the Viking Guide, rather than the order at List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart#Operas - where I see that there's a red entry for Thamos, and that La finta semplice is a redirect to an incorrectly capitalised article (sigh!). --GuillaumeTell 18:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I thought after I'd done it that dates would be a good idea. I'll use the ones in the Viking.--GuillaumeTell 21:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. I've used the premiere dates, or approx dates of composition if not premiered in Mozart's lifetime, so not exactly the Viking order. Any further thoughts, or shall I roll them out? I do think that we ought to include King Thamos for completeness. Maybe I should get up a stub for it before I add it to the template (and the opera corpus, etc.) --GuillaumeTell 21:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added the infobox to 16 out of 21 operas, including Mitridate from which I also removed the wide box. It seemed inappropriate where it's longer than the text (mostly stubs), where the wide box at the bottom would be better (when you've finished with it). Plus it didn't look right in The Magic Flute, where the existing picture needs to be put somewhere else, I think, so I didn't do anything there pro tem. --GuillaumeTell 22:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I've just added the infobox to Die Schuldigkeit des ersten Gebotes for the time being - do you really think it looks all right? On the subject of the infobox itself, I think that we can de-link both "Operas" and "WAM" in the title-bar, as this will usually duplicate the references to both in the first para of the article. As for the quality of the Mozart articles, I was thinking exactly the same thing, but, as I have other things on, I just made a mental note (I see that you've been rectifying some of the more obvious problems). If/when he becomes composer of the month, I suggest that anyone interested should specify a Mozart opera that they will "adopt", to avoid duplication. --GuillaumeTell 21:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "To do" boxes.

Should be able to do it: It's basically just a table with a transcluded web page. I'll poke around after lunch. Adam Cuerden talk 13:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Or will feel ill and nap. Remind me tomorrow? Adam Cuerden talk

How's that look? Adam Cuerden talk 00:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Right then! As for the image in the corner: Fairly trivial to change: Indeed, for the Work Projects box, you can change it as part of the template. Just find something suitable. Adam Cuerden talk 13:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pastorale héroïque

I changed the article title to the more accurate "pastorale héroïque" (with the double dotted "i"). Cheers. --Folantin 18:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming cats.

I agreed with both the proposed moves. Once we have stubs for all Rameau's operas, we will have at least six opéra-ballets. --Folantin 18:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pastoral Opera category / article

Hi! Thanks for your note suggesting an article and sources related to the new Pastoral opera category. I would be happy to create an article - but just to double-check - I see the previous message here on your talk page from Folantin, regarding the new article on Pastorale héroïque, which is almost the same thing as my "Pastoral opera"; however the operas that I categorized as pastoral are the very earliest Italian Baroque operas (as opposed to French). My source for using this terminology is the New Oxford History of Music; the criteria for calling them pastoral is similar to that in the Pastoral héroïque article - "drawing on Classical subject matter associated with pastoral poetry". The other sources that I have available to conveniently draw upon are Grout's History of Western Music and 15th edition Britannica - for Grove, however, I need to go to my public library and look at a print copy of it :) Anyway, let me know what you think regarding Pastoral opera vs. Pastorale héroïque - I will create the Pastoral opera article, with sources to back it up, if you don't think it is redundant to the Pastorale héroïque article, which was created after your message to me, as far as I can tell. Cheers, Lini 19:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cut pastes

Heh, I only get annoyed at them because I always mess up when I try to fix them (that, and they mess up the page history). The correct way to move a page is to use the "move" tab, which is next to the history tab, and type in the new title. If it says you can't move it because there's another page in the way, it's best to just grab an administrator and have them move it for you, although I think they've made it so that non-admins can move pages over redirects, which was the case with the page you moved. Anyway, I managed to fix it without creating too many circular redirects or anything, so no harm done. Cheers, Mak (talk) 01:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French plurals

I'll look into that. I have a feeling that hyphenated words only take one "s" (e.g. opéra-ballets) while separate words require separate plural endings (e.g. opéras comiques). --Folantin 11:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for invitation to join Opera project

Thank you for your friendly invitation to join the Opera project. I have done so! :) In addition to my name I've added a sentence about my current operatic interests, following the example of the Biography project membership list.

I fall into the category of those who are not experts in opera, but rather have become interested in it, want to learn more, and find Wikipedia both helpful in learning more, and in providing an opportunity for me to reinforce what I learn from other sources by enhancing what is already in WP with additional information, and/or "filling in the gaps".

I've become enthused by studying the craftmanship exercised both in creating an opera (the bringing together of libretto, composition, stagecraft, and performance) and in Baroque music in general (prolific creativity within strict structural form), so my area of interest right now within the opera project centers around the intersection of the two: Baroque opera. One interesting facet that I was unaware of before is that, when one starts to look at the history of Baroque opera, one can be drawn into reading about the craftmanship of theatre architecture as well, both because many aspects of the design of theatres as we know them today had their beginning in the late Renaissance/early Baroque, and because of the sometimes elaborate machinery necessary for the "special effects" that were popular in Baroque opera. So, one interest leads to another!

Regarding the Opera project - I have already been impressed by the level of active participation that I've seen in the project, and in the sensible consensus that the group has achieved in areas such as category structuring, the List of important operas, etc. So, I am pleased to be able to be part of such a project! Cheers, Lini 13:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semele

No problemo. It's been good to have you back for a bit - does this mean we won't have you around until 2007 some time? Cheers, Moreschi 20:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semele

You have destroyed work that took me two days. You make an arbitrary decision that Semele is an oratorio. It is not. You set up the Semele opera page for the Eccles alone, and then find yourself forced to tag on the Marais. What is this "split" rule? Why shouldn't a page titled "Semele opera" cover three works? How would you deal with this if the Marais were too well known to be buried in your Eccles? As it is, you are already misleading the Wikipedia reader about the Handel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andrew Powell (talk • contribs) 08:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Semele and "Split" Issue

If a single page can be devoted to only one subject, how do you accommodate "Otello (opera)" or "Il barbiere di Siviglia (opera)" when these each have multiple composers? Doesn't the page have to become: -- EITHER a good narrative covering all the works (as I created and you destroyed for "Semele (opera)") -- OR a regular Wikipedia disambiguation page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andrew Powell (talk • contribs) 05:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Andrew's case

I had no idea of its existance. If I remember correctly, he made some changes which I deemed to lower the quality of the article (he added some questionable POV statements and odd syntax), and he made no effort to discuss the issues on the talk page. I don't know why he didn't try to discuss the changes with me; it seems rather drastic to file such a request. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 02:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it. I wrote a short little response there, but I doubt anything will come of the case. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 18:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good to see you back

Nice to have you around again. Progress report? Well, List of important operas is now featured after a great deal of work - over 300 citations(!) - and everyone is still, I think, recuperating from that, as it were. Orfeo ed Euridice is now a good article - thanks for your help there. At the moment things are on a bit of slow-down after the list got featured, as it was really quite some effort. But we certainly need to get Bellini month up and running. Incidentally, I've written a few singer biographies that have been on the Did you know section of the Main Page recently: Joseph Legros and Giuseppe Millico. Nick Clapton has done some superb work with the castrati articles this month.

Oh, and I just noticed the AMA business below. I just left this message, but the basic point is that topics which are capable of having a full encyclopedia article written on them always have their own page, regardless of whether they share that name with something else. That's true not only for opera but also for the whole of Wikipedia. If whoever at the AMA takes the case doesn't realise that, then feel free to ignore anything that comes out of the process. The AMA is a pretty discredited organisation anyway. If the mess carries on then ArbCom or, more realistically, requests for comment will sort out the problem. Cheers, Moreschi Request a recording? 13:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

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