Talk:Kit Carson

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Contents

[edit] Archives

[edit] Carson and Languages

The reference for this is www.coloradohistory.org. Permission obtained. Richiar 05:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Further documentation: permission obtained a second time from Mary Ann McNair, Coordinator of Education, Colorado Historical Society, on this date, at 2pm, per phone conversation. ph: (303) 866-3682. If you need further clarification, call her. Richiar 22:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article is taken over by Cazedessus

As of Jan 1st 2007, this is article is just an opinion by the user names above. I do not have the time to fight him. Kit Carson's image does not accurately the misery he brought to the Navajo. Cazedessus WILL delete anything bad about him.

[edit] Carson's other two wives

I don't believe this article suggests Carson's previous two wives. The first wive's name was Waa-nibe, and Arapaho Indian. the tow had one daughter named Adeline. Waa-nibe died after a while. Carson's second wife was named Making-out-Road, she was a Cheyenne Indian.They had no children, but she stayed with him for a short period of time, then left him. Can someone put this in for me? thanks! I found this in this website: [1] 70.170.93.169 02:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I requested permission from the corporate office in Salt Lake City to use that information.Haven't heard back from them yet. If I do, I'll add it. Richiar 21:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

KIT CARSON & HIS THREE WIVES, A Family History, by Marc Simmons (Univ. New Mexico, 2003, 195 p. including Index) is the answer here. Mr. Simmons is an expert on Spanish/Mexican/American Southwest and this book is at least 99% accurate. All the details are there, and more.Cazedessus 17:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additions being made to the article

I'm making additions to the article here and there, to add in details that hopefully will add to the understanding of Carson. I will have more. All additions for now are coming from Blood and Thunder. Richiar 01:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

Entries in "popular culture" should be noteworthy and relevant; an obscure song by a minor writer is not noteworthy and I have therefore deleted it. rewinn 04:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

"Ten-four" Richiar 17:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I told Nareek this months ago, 10-4! Cazedessus 17:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] February 21, 2007 edits

A number of sections were added tonight. It would be nice to have sources and citations. The POV might be off in one or two added sections. Ronbo76 05:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I have made some additions and re arranging: while generally keeping the same information, I have added material which seems fitting to understanding Carsons life, expanding what is known about him, and having the flow of the article blend in. All the material added is from "Blood and Thunder", pp. 10-16, and 29-31. I find Hampton's book quite thorough, and extensively documented. I hope others like the changes, but any comments are welcome. Richiar 05:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
As an afterthought, There is more material that could be added that would seem to help illuminate Carson in a general article. If people prefer, I'll make proposals before making other changes. I think the material I added would require some alteration of the structure of the paragraph or two below what I added. Richiar 05:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New additions proposed

I'll finish up a few details on Carsons trapper years that I didn't have a chance to complete yet, if no one objects, in the next day or two.

Also, I am proposing some additional material be added to the article, and a little rearranging, mostly adding more material to the article rather than taking anything away. I would suggest a heading something like "The Fremont Explorations and the Army of the West", where Carson worked as a guide for Fremont and Kearney. I was considering adding material on the Klamath Lake incident, the San Quentin incident, and the Battle of San Pasqual. Any comments or discussion? Richiar 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I finished up the additions to the trapper years; the last two paragraphs that were there before were removed, as it was either the same information in a different form, or it will be covered with (hopefully) new material to be added on Fremont and Kearney. Some of the links were taken out that were previously there, because they didn't seem to contribute to the substance of the article. Richiar 17:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC) P.S. the material is from "Blood and Thunder" pp. 32-34

I added a header and some material on Carson's first two expeditions with Fremont. It will need a little cleaning up and a little more material added to clairfy it, which I'll be adding to rtly. Richiar 01:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I added a paragraph on the murder of the three Mexicans: I am considering a small footnote to clarify Fremonts 3rd expedition, which seems to have been politically motivated as a larger campaign by the US to obtain California by force. Also, for the sake of ending the Fremont section, it may be a good idea to consider Fremonts and Carsons involvement with Commodore Stockton as part of the military service section, which also has the additional complexity of how Kearney and the Army of the West becomes involved in the Battle of San Pasqual. Any comments or discussion? Richiar 22:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re-write of Military Service section

I'll be adding material on the prelude to the battle of San Pasqual, which leads into Carsons chance meeting of Kearney, which leads to the battle of San Pasqual. To do so, I took out the Military Service section: the information in there will be kept, but with the added material, I thought the section would require a re-write. (Also, the preceeding paragraph had some identical information). Richiar 03:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I expandecd the Military Service section by adding events that occurred from the time of Fremonts return to the Sacramento Valley, through the conquest of San Diego and Los Angeles, until Carson goes cross country carrying messages and by chance meets S. Kearney in the middle of New Mexico. Kearney then orders Carson to turn around and lead him back into California, where they end up in the Battle of San Pasqual, and are nearly wiped out, except that Carson gets through enemy lines and brings reinforcements. This sequence of events sets the stage for what happens next in Carsons life (he gets passed along from Fremont to Stockton to Kearney to Carleton-sound like a familiar pattern?). I changed "Military Service" to "Military Service with Kearney" because of the different phases of Carson's military service. I added a couple of footnotes to the San Quentin incident and the meeting of Kearney at Valverde because I thought the information helped clarify the story, and I didn't see any easier way of putting it in. Finally, the previous version of this article stated that the 3 Mexican men were executed at Point San Pable, rather than San Quentin. I don't know which version is more accurate. If anyone has any information here, please help out. Also I removed the first three sentences from the previous version but the information was still kept. Richiar 05:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last edit needs copyedit

This line appears, "Mr. Carson, your duty," to which Carson then complied. Dunlay Kit Carson and the Indians". Not sure what Dunlay applies to?

Thats the refernce from which the statement is taken. It might need to be modified to a proper format, but I wanted people to know to source of the information. I had an edit conflict while adding my explanation and will try again in a minute. Richiar 05:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I took out the reference to Dunlay. I had put it in, because I thought the incident might be controversial and thought some might want to have a reference. Is this better? Richiar 05:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Material added on Battle of San Pasqual

I added material from H. Sides. I think I forgot to sign in. The previous version states that Carson crawled 2 mi barefoot through the desert. My impression from Sides was 30 miles: I don't know which version is accurate. Also, Sides leaves the impression that Kearney was 30 mi from San Diago, and at another place leaves the imperssion that it was 25 miles. I put 25 just to keep some consistency. Richiar 04:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Recent additions

The recent changes to headings and the added map seem to be nice additions to the article. Thanks. Richiar 02:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

you are welcome. I like your recent additions and hope my minor changes help. WBardwin 05:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there a way to get the image to enlarge? Richiar 14:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
A little better: I was hoping the image could be expanded several times by clicking on it, but I traced it to the source (Lt. Emory's diary) on the link at the bottom of the article, and the source website itself won't allow the image to expand, it seems, which is too bad, because some of the Civil war battle maps can be expanded several times and one can really see the detail quite well in some instances. Richiar 23:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
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