Talk:Kiryas Joel, New York

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The article states

the median income for a family is $15,372. Males have a median income of $25,043 versus $16,364 for females

How is this possible? Doesn't a family contain at least one person who is either male or female? How does a family's income get to be lower than that of the people in it? (Please note: I have looked at demographics for other places, including Monsey, New York, Spring Valley, New York, and Brooklyn, New York, and in those cases, the family income is above that of the individuals, as is logical. But I must admit that in the demographics for New Square, New York, family income is below that of the individuals.) --Keeves 02:37, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

• Yes, I've been to Kiryas Yoel, and that doesn't sound right. Yodamace1

• • I think you misunderstood me. My question is not about whether the people there make a little money or a lot of money. It is about the definitions of "family" and "males", and how a family can possibly make less money than the members of that family.--Keeves 18:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Its possible because the median simply comes from the mid point (not the average) of all male or female workers - so this doesn't tell us at all about how many people earn this amount. According to the wiki article on median, "To find the median of a finite list of numbers, arrange all the observations from lowest value to highest value and pick the middle one." Thus, a median family income would be lower than the sum of the median male and femal incomes if a significant portion of either sex did not have any income. I don't know for sure, but since this is a more traditional community, it may be that many women are occupied primarily in childrearing and homemaking areas, and are thus not recieving any income.

[edit] Bus stop picture

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but there doesn’t seem to be any real Yiddish or Hebrew on the bus stop signs shown on the picture (as its caption describes), apart from the town’s name. Seems to me rather as a phonetic transcription of English in Yiddish.

You are correct. I've altered the description accordingly. JoshuaZ 15:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree - that sign's in Yiddish; it just so happens that all the words are borrowed from English. Nevertheless I'll leave it to someone else to change it if they agree with me. Bws2002 22:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not sure I know enough Yiddish to make a judgement on the matter, is the modern yiddish for "bus stop" really just "bus stop" transliterated in hebrew? JoshuaZ 22:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

No, apparently it's bas stap. :-D Tomer^talk 07:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

No, JoshuaZ is right in modern Yiddish it's just "bus stop".Neigerig 14:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You apparently failed to understand what I was saying. Oh well. Tomer^talk 14:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I get it, Tomer - that's funny, and it also brings up an interesting point. Actually, an alef in this dialect of Yiddish can be any of three sounds: one is 'a,' another is 'u' (like the vowel in 'food', and yet another is 'o,' which is pretty close to the vowel in the English word 'bus.' So I'd transcribe it "bos stap."Bws2002 17:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yiddish is like my 14th language, but I'd be inclined to agree with your transliteration. Tomer^talk 00:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in modern Yiddish, at least in the NY-chasidic dialect, it's just "bus stop". Same with "villidz transportation". :

As the original photographer of that sign (as well as the "skyline" shot in the infobox), and one ignorant of the Hebrew alphabet (much less Yiddish) despite my first name, I appreciate having been able to read this discussion, especially since I had boldly gone and cleaned up the cutline first.

I remember a similar anecdote relayed by Isaac Asimov about his father, who could not read the Roman alphabet when he first arrived in this country. But he saw a sign in Yiddish and went to read it. He was, however, mystified by what "Vindehz gefikst" was supposed to mean, and only much later did he learn it was supposed to mean "Windows fixed".

Similarly, Asimov himself (I believe this is all in Asimov's Treasury of Humor) recalls his chagrin at picking up a copy of one of his books in Hebrew for the first time, and seeing that the translator had rendered his first name as a transliteration of "Isaac" instead of using "Yitzhak" (his original given name). Daniel Case 14:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I like both of these Asimov anecdotes very much. The second one is particularly telling, and I understand how it came about - there happens to be a traditional Jewish name Ayzik that sounds identical to the English name Isaac. What most likely happened is that the people involved in publishing the Hebrew translation heard Asimov's first name and assumed that he was Ayzik, not Isaac.Bws2002 23:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drop shadow

Would anyone mind if I crop out the drop shadow from the image of Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 04:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

AGREE. I think it's a good idea, more consistent with encyclopedic style and other portraits throughout Wikipedia. --Lisasmall 20:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)