Talk:Kingsway tramway subway

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[edit] Dates of closure

I noticed you´ve recently Corrected the LDO´s of the subway tram routes. May I ask where you get your info from?? I remember changing the dates earlier last year. My sources say 6th April 1952 was the LDO of the 33 & 35 and that the replacement bus routes FDO was 7th April 1952. May I suggest you are confusing the 5th July 1952, LDO of London Trams with 5th March 1952?? see [1] &[2]. IsarSteve 16:20, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

(I've moved discussion here so that it doesn't come up again later!). I rewrote the whole article last year, using the booklet London's Tramway Subway (which I bought in 1985 - original publication, I believe, was mid-70s) for much of the source material. The relevant section is on page 11 of that booklet:

Finally, on Saturday 5th April, 1952, trams ran through the Subway for the last time; tram service 35 (Forest Hill - Highgate) was replaced next day by bus service 172, and tram service 33 (West Norwood - Manor House) was replaced by bus service 171, West Norwood - Tottenham (Bruce Grove). The last car to carry passengers through the Subway in service was E/3 No. 185, some time after midnight, and in the early hours of the following morning the remaining cars from Holloway depot were driven south through the Subway to new homes of the scrapyard.

The tracks remained unaltered, though disused, until the final abandonment of London's tramways on 5th July, 1952, after which ...

There is also the issue that last services on LT nearly always run on Fridays or Saturdays and new services start on Mondays, hence why your sources shows the 7th (Monday). --Vamp:Willow 16:54, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I checked out the starting date of the replacement 171s & 172s on a Route Change leaflet in my collection. Of course the 6th April 1952 was correct! Regarding London Transport tram and bus route changes, these historically took effect on a Wednesday, due to the fact that the London bus and tram crew´s working week also began on a Wednesday. This system was inherited from the LGOC London General Bus Company in 1933 and remained this way until January 1965, when the start of the working week was altered to a Saturday (start of five-day, 40 hour working week) and so it has remained ever since. This said, some but not all of the Post Second World War tram to bus conversions took effect on Saturday/Sundays, but I´m not sure of the reason for this. IsarSteve 16:26, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Use

This will be used as part of the Cross River Tram system won't it? If so, it needs to be referred to. 81.178.107.120 12:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Apparently not [3]:

"The well-known underpass which carries northbound traffic from Waterloo Bridge directly to Kingsway used to be a tram tunnel. It is therefore important to note that this tunnel would not be used for CRT. Instead, trams would travel over Lancaster Place."

Nick Cooper 19:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Single or double decker?

The page says they decided to design the subway only for single decker vehicles, but the old photograph definitely looks like a double decker to me; is it about to crash, a miscellaneous photo or is the text wrong? Artybrad 10:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)