Talk:Kingdom of Loathing

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Archives
January 2005 – May 2006

Contents 1 Notable players 2 Lounge chat channel? 3 HC Ronin? 4 "softcore" vs. "normal" 5 KoL Trance 6 Logo 7 Penguin Mafia 8 Gameplay screenshots? 9 Sources 10 Bloat. 11 KoL Chess 12 Seal Clubber redirect 13 Crimboween 14 plexiglass 15 Hovering Sombrero 16 KoLmafia 17 Coldfront In Chat 18 Scammer Era 19 To much info on food and booze?

[edit] Notable players

Surfing wiki for so long, this is the first time I ever seen a column such as 'Notable players' for any game in the style presented here. If they want to know about these players, reading an article on the wiki is not the place to do it. Heck, even seperate wiki entries if you're so determined to do it. Does anyone even CARE who Boozerbear is, when they just want to know what is Kingdom of Loathing? A final arguement : with a column like this, the spammers will have a field day. --Cpryd001 16:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. This is not something that has been deemed acceptable in previous, similar situations. --InShaneee 17:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

KoL is considerably more social-oriented and many players have become near-celebrities with the game's community, which could raise question and interest with newer players who heard a name dropped in chat. I personally think it should stay. As for spammers, there's always the risk of them polluting an article, I don't think a column such as this would effect it much. If all else fails, it could always be locked.--68.60.18.222 03:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

"with the game's community," - that's the key right there. It's only interest is withing the game's already existing community... and that's not really the audience of a wikipedia article. KOLColdFront is a much better place for a list of notable players. ---J.S (t|c) 05:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lounge chat channel?

Should the lounge channel be mentioned in the article? It could just say "Unclear" or "Unknown" under "Purpose" and "Who can access". Mo-Al 00:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm against that. There's just so little verifiable information we'd be doing a disservice to the article to even try. --InShaneee 02:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Mo-Al 02:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't be silly. /lounge hasn't been a great secret in almost two years now. --Cairnarvon 21:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, it hasn't been verified. Mo-Al 22:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. There's just no need for something that there's no verifiable info about. --InShaneee 00:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

But you CAN verify that the lounge channel exists. If someone's actually in the channel (not just listening to it), then /whois will tell you "This player is currently online in channel lounge". (I just verified that myself using a multi.) And it's safe to say that it's available to people who've been granted access by an admin. You can't access any chat channel in the game without being granted access by an admin -- if not directly through admin intervention, then at least indirectly via game code that was written by an admin... -- CWesling 01:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I believe you, but just because you have discovered it doesn't mean that it's suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia (you know, no original research and all that). If you can find a source that backs you up, cite it and put it it. Mo-Al 02:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What kind of a feeble excuse is that? You can't find a "source" that backs up anything in this article; the only real source is the game itself (unless somebody's written a scientific paper about KoL that I haven't heard about), and I don't see you erasing the article because of that. I just told you how you or anybody else (with a KoL account, or access to a friend's) can verify this. That's as close to "verifiable" as anything in this article gets.

If it'll help any, I can give you the names of some players who are online in lounge right now for you to verify, since you're logged on here currently. Try a /whois on Cthules, Lilith, or Old Ned. -- CWesling 02:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The channel's existence was denied in its first few months, but nowadays it's commonly acknowledged, both by the people who have access and the admins themselves. --Cairnarvon 02:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Then get a source, and cite it in the article. It doesn't matter whether you or I know it. Mo-Al 02:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, here's a source: [1]. I forgot about the KoL Wiki. Happy now? -- CWesling 02:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was just too lazy to look it up on my own. Mo-Al 02:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the chat channel table has been removed, so it's a moot point now. Mo-Al 20:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HC Ronin?

I've removed the part that says that a HC player that frees the King in under 600 turns is still subject to Ronin, as I haven't heard of it. If we can find a reference somewhere, feel free to add it back in. Quentin mcalmott 17:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Even if it's true, it's not worth mentioning. This isn't a strategy guide, and already contains too much detail on the game mechanics. --InShaneee 17:21, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This is true-- I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but it's a commonly-known fact on the KoL Forums. There's an invisible Ronin counter in Hardcore. It, for some bizarre reason, remains even after you free the King. I'm not sure why it stays after you free the King, but the logistics of having a Ronin counter in Hardcore are fairly simple to understand-- if such a thing didn't exist, one could ascend Hardcore and immediately drop it, turning their run into a normal run without a Ronin phase.

But I digress. My point is, it is true, but I can't find a source right now. Maybe later. Besides, InShaneee's point is a good one-- it's not worth mentioning. --Southwest 16:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "softcore" vs. "normal"

I've taken the liberty of changing all mentions of "softcore ascension" into "normal ascension." That's the official term seen at the Ascension FAQ. [2] Quentin mcalmott 17:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KoL Trance

I saw KoL Trance in the Community section, so i added the link to the Community links.

[edit] Logo

I think it would be better if the logo image was of the left sword guy. That's the one they use on shirt designs and Jick's avatar, etc. --80.195.190.235

Does it...really...matter? --'Ivan 03:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. --80.195.190.235 22:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

if you think it doesn't matter, the change doesn't affect you. If you think the change matters, go ahead and change it; no one's against it (that has spoke up, and honestly, I don't think it's very contentious). Quentin mcalmott 23:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Gika 00:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

...It's been changed back. Does anyone know why? --80.195.190.235 15:58, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Penguin Mafia

I see that the Penguin Mafia has been left out of the History section and I think it would be nice if it was added.

Unsigned comment by IP 68.184.207.173 16:29, August 9, 2006. (added by Jazzdude00021)

That would be nice... I'm too lazy to see if someone else has already done it.  :)

Frodo 11011 08:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gameplay screenshots?

Would anyone have any objection to me taking a few gameplay screenshots and including them in the page? I don't think it could hurt anything, and would help to give readers a flavor of the game. --Southwest 16:15, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

One might be alright, but that's the most usually used on game articles. I'd recommend a shot of combat. --InShaneee 16:23, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of adding any more than a couple. --Southwest 03:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to go about this, but a while ago, I took a screenshot of KoL. If you want it, it's here. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4407/kolscreenshotvc7.png

You can use that however you want. --80.195.190.235 08:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I added the above screenshot to the article. Southwest, if you have a better one, feel free to go for it. Cornprone 00:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks fantastic! --InShaneee 14:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree-- it looks great! I don't see any way a screenshot I took could be better-- any I took right now wouldn't be as indicative of normal gameplay, as I'm currently running a level-19 character. Nice job, Cornprone and the anonymous screenshotter! --Southwest 03:49, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

I've been adding references as I work on the History section. However, the best sources of information I can find on these topics are the articles the KOL wiki ( http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/ ). Are these OK as source references? And anyone know of better ones? Cornprone 05:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bloat.

Put simply... the article is beginning to feel bloated. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 12:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What course of action would you suggest? Cornprone 12:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Trimming of sections. Some sections probably don't merit their own little section and could just a be a single sentence as part of another section. the comet for example was merely a method of introducing a new raffle feature.

The Radio KoL section also is rather large, dwarfing all other sub-sections and ... and things such as those. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 12:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I added the comet section because I believe it was a significant-enough event to warrant mention. Also, I divided the History section into subsections because I thought it made it easier to read. I was however considering combining the "classes" and "attributes" sections into a single "characters" section and shortening the individual descriptions of each class and attribute. Also I agree the Radio section could be shorter. --Cornprone 12:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Another thought: I'm loathe to just remove a lot of information in the "Radio" section, but much of it is only tangentially related to the game itself. Maybe it's more prudent to split "Radio KOL" into a separate article. --Cornprone 12:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I like the classes and attributes idea. IIRC, Radio KoL once did have its own article, which got merged back here. Really, I think it's prudent to cut that whole section down to a one or two sentence mention, and merge it with another section. --InShaneee 13:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, I just shortened the attributes and classes sections. I took out the quoted descriptions about each class that came from the official KOL site and made things more concise. (also made some information more accurate). Thoughts? --Cornprone 00:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

We should really just be forwarding people to the KoLwiki at coldfront for more info. No general encylopedia should include this much minutae about one game. 155.212.44.58 19:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

"Forwarding to the KolWiki" is not an option. As for how much detail should be gone into, I'm sure we can find a GA or FA class game article to use as reference. --InShaneee 20:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, if you look at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Sport_and_games, it seems to me that this article--in terms of how much detail it presents--is pretty much in line with accepted community standards. I will still try to edit some stuff for conciseness and shorten the Radio section, though. --Cornprone 22:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KoL Chess

I've added a sentence or two about KoL Chess, and Hoddan's online version. If someone knows some background information on the chess game (who created the new ruleset, when, etc.) please add it. The section isn't complete as I left it, and I'd like it more robust. Also, if you can think of a better word than personas, (I was thinking in terms of the Legends), please, swap it out.

I've removed the reference. It is a non-notable fangame. --InShaneee 21:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry then

KoL chess? Sounds cool. I wish I had seen the info. Frodo 11011 08:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seal Clubber redirect

We really dont need this, it would have to include all other classes to have a significance. --Nanajoth 15:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Do we really want a Seal Clubber redirect to be mentioned in the first line of this article? It seems like it's not really helpful, as it's not one of the most important things to read about as the first line. Quentin mcalmott 04:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

How else are we to explain other uses of "seal clubber"? There's no real other place to put it. --Crazysunshine 11:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. It's standard practice to put 'otheruses' templates at the top of articles. --InShaneee 22:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Hrm, I guess it's ok then. It just seems odd to me to have that up on the top of the article for people who don't come here through a "seal clubber" link. Quentin mcalmott 02:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crimboween

Is it justifiable to have information on Crimboween or even just Crimbo in general? Or would that not even be funny? There is information on the Comet, but I guess that would impact (pun not intended until just now) everybody who plays, having altered mechanics relying on moon phases. Vitriol 20:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It really seems outside of the scope of an encyclopedia. ---J.S ^(T/C) 21:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. This is just one event. --InShaneee 22:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] plexiglass

The word "plexiglass" in the context of the article should be in quotes, and it should not be linked. It's being used in an specific in-universe context that has nothing to do with the real world. Since it's an unusual usage for the word "plexiglass" it is appropriate to use quotes to distinguish it. ---J.S ^(T/C) 23:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The items are called plexiglass in-game. Should we also call the items "bow"legged pants, "cardboard" wakizashi, or cheshire "bitten", if they were in this article? I also don't see how it's being used in a context that has nothing to do with the real world, just making it into clothing. Quentin mcalmott 01:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Upon further research, it seems that "plexiglass" is indeed a widely-used word in the real world and as such does not need quotes around it. --Cornprone 03:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

On even more research, Wikipedia redirects "plexiglass" to the page it is now linked to. Try it yourself. If it is a word to Wikipedia, then it is a word to me. Even so, plexiglass, the same type used in-game, is the same type used in the real world. Imagine that! It is not being used in an unusual way, so it doesn't need quotes. So, context and usage both sway in favor of linking and no quotes. SnufStyle420 20:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what is in the game or not. You cannot use the word (or non-word) "plexiglass". It has no meaning and it is illegal. It is a trademark violation and against wikipedia copyright policy.Tstrobaugh 15:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

As to comments above, that "plexiglass" is a word because it has a redirect in wikepedia, it has a redirect precisely because it is not a word and it is assumed to be a mistaken entry on the users part. Another one, that it is used in the game also doesn't matter, unless there is a section explaining why the game uses it incorrectly and illegally. I worked for Rohm and Hass in trademark protection. Also, metaphysically, there are not "real worlds" and I suppose "unreal worlds" there is only one world.Tstrobaugh 15:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Well I, for one, question whether you should be making such controversial changes without consensus (and especially marking them minor) when you are so close to the subject (the company Rohm and Haas makes plexiglas). And yes, there are two separate "worlds", even if you argue over the semantics of calling them such. In the world of the game, that's what the items are called. No matter if "plexiglass" is a word or not in the non-KoL world, it is in KoL, in the same way that "Klingon" was not a word (to my knowledge) until Star Trek made it so. I've listed this at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. Quentin mcalmott 06:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The game uses the term "plexiglass". The game does not use the term "acrylic glass". The article is using the item an an example of something in the game. Calling it acrylic glass would be blatantly incorrect and misleading. The game item has nothing to do with the real world "acrylic glass." If you have a concern with trademark infringement, I sugust you contact the people at KOL. However, wikipedia is only reporting on the game's usage of the term. ---J.S ^(T/C) 23:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hovering Sombrero

"Hovering Sombrero" is a They Might Be Giants song - anybody know whether KoL got the name from TMBG, or vice versa? Is this worthy of note in this article? Applejuicefool 20:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion be - Check KoLwiki. it notes all the references.  :)

I would do that, but my stupid work internet filter won't let me go to sites that reference games in any way (in theory - some slip through, like Wikipedia articles, for instance!) Probably a good idea - else I'd probably never get any work done! lol Applejuicefool 16:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely a reference to TMBG, like many other things in the game. Probably not worth mentioning here though. Cornprone 12:47, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KoLmafia

I was wondering about this: is it malware of any kind? Keylogger, trojan, etc? —My name is too long 19:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Welll... A lot of people use it, and trust it. In case ye don't know, it's an automatic thing that plays KoL for ye. I've never actually tried it though. Frodo 11011 07:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coldfront In Chat

I added to the Community page near the bottom saying how it was also forbidden to say something about Coldfront or anyother spolier site outside of KoL. Should it stay there or does the saying about being forbidden simply cover it? GloomySunday 01:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scammer Era

This section has been removed twice now (I did it the first time, someone else did it the second time). I still think this isn't that notable, but given that at least one other person feels differently, what do others think? Here's what I removed.

"The Scammer Era"

In the year 2005, there were many scammers that stole meat from other characters. The greatedt of these scammers was "WheresWaldo," who scammed 34 million meat from unsuspecting users. He did it in a simple method, having Hell Ramen in his store at the mall and showing it at a very low price, and when people would see that price they would quickly try and buy it, and find that the price had been switched to over 1 million meat. Jick tried making it difficult for these scams but they persisted. Finally, WheresWaldo bought a golden Mr. Accessory and decided to quit. The citizens were troubled and angered over his reign of terror.

I removed it once. Price switching is a very common scammer tactic. Also, 34 million meat isn't actually that much. Searching the KoL wiki for "whereswaldo" shows only two results, neither of which relate to this scammer. Searching for "waldo scam" (by searching for "all terms", not "any or use query as entered") brings up no results. Scamming is a constant part of KoL, and I don't think 2005 was that much worse to be named as a particular era. Quentin mcalmott 01:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, I forgot to sign the original posting...that was me.  :P WLGades 01:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To much info on food and booze?

I found this:

Users get 40 "adventures" per day. The number of adventures can be increased by consuming food and booze, but only until the player becomes too full or drunk to consume more.

(the previous entry)

A bit more encyclopedic than this:

Users get 40 "adventures" per day. The number of adventures can be increased by a few ways. Consuming food and booze will give the player between 1 and 29 additional adventures, depending on the type, until the player becomes too full or drunk to consume more. The skills "Stomach of Steel" and "Liver of Steel" allow the player to consume more food and booze before being too full or drunk. Various campground and clan items also give extra adventures.

(the current entry)

I'd undo it, but I'm a newb to Wikipedia, so I wanted to ask you Wikipedians, first.--Munkel (talk) 12:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's too much now too. The old way was a nice overview; the new edit goes into too many details. Quentin mcalmott 21:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)