Talk:King Crimson

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the King Crimson article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Article policies
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Portal:Biography
 Biography Portal
A This article has been rated as A-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia.
Former FA This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Peer review King Crimson has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Could we get a source for the assertion that Fripp thought Crimson was essentially about playing live? I believe there's a quote that says so in Melody Maker, as quoted in the Young Guide to KC's booklet. I think this was correct only at some point in the band's history, probably between Earthbound and USA. The math rock turn, plus some of Fripp's side productions, imply quite the opposite, such as the vocal cleanup between the "God Save the King" vinyl and CD editions, or the "The First Day" and "No Pussyfooting" productions, which were both recorded as album and as live albums ("Damage" and pirate versions, respectively). Sorry, these are first-thoughts notes, I guess my grammar+syntax deeply suck. François/phnk

  • Fripp has discussed KC as a primary live band at least as recently as in VROOOM VROOOM live compilation's liner notes, which was released in 2001 and documents the live band 1995-1996. And the band is also constantly releasing new live albums and especially digital downloads, from all it's eras. I'll dig up a more precise quote/resource when I get the time. This was a good question! Fripp has stated repeatedly that he dislikes touring, and that touring with KC especially is a huge pain for him. However I think he sees live KC music as more valuable than studio KC music. evktalo 13:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Thanks for these additional elements. I would argue that the points you just brought in justify that the KC article should reflect some ambiguity about the 'live' nature of the band. I am not sure this is clearly sorted out in Fripp's vision of KC, and I actually think this paradoxical ambivalence about live performance is a significant way to look at the KC alchemy. François/phnk

Hmmm, a bit debatable whether KC is in fact a "British" band now. Three quarters of the line-up are American.

  • True, though its founder and primary member Robert Fripp is British; the constantly rotating membership makes it tricky to categorize the band in such a way. A category (assuming that's what you're referring to) is just a collection of things that are loosely associated in some way, so I'd say it's more appropriate than inappropriate. -- Wapcaplet 22:55, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • H'mmmm. Perhaps it would do to call them a "nominally British" band?

Founded in Britain, by Britons, the definitive early albums(up until Red?)featuring exclusively British musicians...I dont see a problem. Although in theory I think the idea of sticking a flag in a band should be beneath me I can't accept the group being called anything but British while Fripp is still in charge! Samgb 11:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

      • While the group was British in 69-74, from there onwards it has been (increasingly) Anglo-American; also the music has changed from English progressive rock of the (early) 1970s. Perhaps just "a musical group"? evktalo 22:20, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I was actually quite fond of the phrase "...leaving King Crimson in the unenviable position of being a rock band without a singer, bassist, or drummer." [1] I can see that there might be objection on the grounds of neutrality, but I think it's probably obvious to most readers that a rock band without a singer, bassist, or drummer isn't much of a rock band, and the phrase is more colorful than its replacement "as". Perhaps there's a better way to phrase this? -- Wapcaplet 03:56, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • I agree. Let's keep it. Just because it is objective doesn't mean it has to be purposefully dry. Freeflux

Is the wording really close enough to Crimson King to include a link at the top of the article? Should we do this in all two-word articles where there is another article that reverses them? This linking policy seems a little overexuberant right now. Also, what, if any, is the relationship between the band's name and the King character? Does anyone know?Alfoor 05:44, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I suspect little connection, as the band had been releasing records for 13 years before this character was created, however I suppose the character's name might have come from the band. Tev 00:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The article says the band was founded in 1968, however, according to several sources, including DGM and notes from A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson, the band officially started on January 13, 1969. MusicBrainz also listed an incorrect 1968 date, but during that time period, the members of the future KC were in Giles, Giles & Fripp. The notes from AYPGtKC mention that the group formed "in outline" on November 15, 1968, but I think that the "official" formation date should be what is referenced by outside sources such as Wikipedia or Musicbrainz or whatever. -- Megaslow 05:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I think king crimson does fall under the math rock catagory, so I am challenging the deletion of that classification. Freeflux Sept 2006

Contents

[edit] Discography

I made a new page for the King Crimson Discography. Necro 04:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beelzebub synonym

For what it's worth, Beelzebub is a loose Semitic transliteration for "Lord of the Flies", not "the man with an aim". --anon

The article states "The name King Crimson was coined by Peter Sinfield as a synonym for Beelzebub" but what possible connection is there between the two? --Blainster 23:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

...I had edited the false etymology already (January 2006), but they undid it.

There are no verifiable sources for this, yet the link between Beelzebub and King Crimson (the Crimson King) could be death. The person who first wrote the paragraph just assumed this connection. There is no synonymy at all, but Sinfield may have considered Crimson King as a synonym. So the sentence is not 100% incorrect. --Quinceps 15:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Influence

I think that it would be great to write a section on the influence that king crimson has had on music. Especially considering the fact that their debut is widely considered to be one of the greatest progressive rock albums of all time. I tried to write this, but I was having trouble finding sources. Someone ought to take a stab at it. Someone more qualified then me. Freeflux 01:46, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lineup section

Just a quick query. Why does the 1969 lineup on this page not include Ian McDonald? Or Peter Sinfield for that matter. Surely they were key members of the band, especially McDonald, sharing credits for every song off Court. There should be an extra category of lyricist and reeds/wind/mellotron. The vocals section can be simply written Lake/McDonald for 1969. Possibly horns and piano should be included too, to cover the other incarnations.

[edit] 1-2-3 and citations

Can any of you guys find a way to add a quote about 1-2-3 (later Clouds) to the influences section? The band was a definite strong influence on Crimson/Fripp, but finding a tasteful way of inserting it is the problem. Thanks for any help you can give on that. "Matthew.hartington 14:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)"

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../k/i/n/Talk%7EKing_Crimson_75ce.html"