Talk:Kei car

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Not sure how much response I'm going to get for this, but are the dates for the Regulations correct? According to [1], many k-cars (e.g. Mitsubishi Minica, Suzuki Alto were 547 cc until March 1990, when they all switched to 660 cc. I reckon the 1984 date for this change is not correct. -- DeLarge 09:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not know where they got the information from. I took it mainly from the "automotive guidebook of japan" which is released every year (mostly) in Japan and from here [[2]] (this is the official page). anobo 20:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Excellent - that's a better source than my reference in the external links, and it corroborates my suspicions about 1990 being the critical date. I'll add it in. --DeLarge 23:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

added some available pics from wikipedia and removed the request.84.160.75.75 19:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

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There is a small GMC truck seen in Europe that seems to fit in the category are they sold in Japan ? or is it a japanese rebranded truck ? Piaggo also build similar vehicles are they sold in Japan ? Ericd 08:10 16 May 2003 (UTC)

Do you have a name? anobo 08:16 19 May 2003 (UTC)

No I live in Nice they use some GMC minitrucks for garbage disposal in some quater. I'll try to take digital potho when I see one this will help to identify the engine. But isn't the GM a shareholder of Isuzu ? BTW the Honda N360 and Z and the Honda minitruck where well known in Europe. There is also a small car branded Marutti which seems to be a Suzuki, I don't where it's built. Ericd 18:13 21 May 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for answering, would be very nice, if you can take a picture.
Referring to GM-Homepage and then `Automotive' and `Auto Brands' both Isuzu and Suzuki belong to GM. Oh, I'm suprised: Subaru as well.

I'd say it's probably a rebadged Suzuki Super Carry of some variety. They were sold in the UK and Ireland in the late '80s and '90s as the Bedford Rascal (Bedford was a GM commercial vehicle brand at the time). --Zilog Jones 10:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think today it isn't very common for japanese companys to export Keicars, caused this cars are left handed,... Of course there are a few exceptions: e.g. Daihatsu Cuore (in Japan: Daihatsu Mira), Suzuki Wagen R, Alto, Jimny... but rebuild: right handed, with an about 1000ccm engine, larger bumpers,...
Yeah, I know about the N360, the Z and the Honda minitruck (maybe T360 and T500?). But this cars were built in the 60's and 70's. And today this cars are very seldom in Europe as well as in Japan. Here is a German page about (all?) Honda models. Very complete as I think :-). anobo 01:09 22 May 2003 (UTC)

"Keicars can be also equipped with air condition or Navigationsystems." Is it worth to write this? anobo 02:25 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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I have no idea what "and no proof for a parking lot" means. Could this be explained in clearer language, please.
Adrian Pingstone 16:47, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

One can not buy a _normal_ car in Japan without this proof. The space on the streets is very less. I don't know how to obtain this. One doesn't need the proof if buying a Keicar. :anobo 15:29, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] edit of 16-06-2006

• Removed speculative "Supposedly, the Keicar will be featured in The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift." First, there's no reference to any keicars in the "featured cars" section of The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift. Second, a Google search brought up absolutely nothing to support this. And third, encyclopedias don't deal in "supposedly" rumours.
• Removed almost all the external links, as they refer to individual models, not keicars in general. They should really be added to the entries for those cars (and ironically, they look like they need to be in the case of the Honda Beat). I'll add them to individual car articles later this afternoon.
• Added some of the individual keicars previously deleted by the IP 84.160.65.88 (user:Anobo?) back in December - just because he thinks "they are not famous" is no reason to exclude them, as they all have their own WP entry and therefore must have passed Wikipedia's standards for notability.

-- DeLarge

[edit] Rename to "K-car" "kei car"

I had never heard of the term "keicar" until seeing this article, and the first 10 or so Google results for the word are just duplicates of this article (answers.com and whatnot). I have often seen "K-car" used by journalists in the UK and Ireland (in reference to the Wagon-R, Move, etc.), and the Japanese WP article lists this as another name (and not "keicar" in roman nor kana). A google search for "k-car japan" gets 65,800 results - compare this to 9,840 for "keicar", and 49,200 for "k-car chrysler". There are very few results for "keijidousha" (756), "keijidosha" (299), "kei jidousha" (361) and "kei jidosha" (1,050) in comparison.

English-speaking people I know who've lived in Japan usually refer to them by their yellow number plates, possibly not knowing the proper name or assuming I wouldn't understand "keijidousha".

So from use I've seen both outside and within the internet, I believe that "K-car" is the most common name used in English, and appears to be used more in reference to these than the Chrysler K platform. I think this should be moved to "K-car", with a disambig line at the start of the article pointing to the Chrysler K-cars. Either that or possibly keeping the current disambig page on "K-car" and moving this to "K-car (japan)", if there is opposition to the above.See my comments below --Zilog Jones 10:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Support. I tried looking for "Daihatsu keicar", "Daihatsu k-car", "Suzuki keicar" and "Suzuki k-car" (these being the largest k-car manufacturers), and some japanese websites turn up k-car on roman characters. The difference in hits from "Suzuki keicar" to "Suzuki k-car" was about 20 to 1 in the latter's favor. Like, never mind, d00dz! --Pc13 10:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

If you search for "kei car" with a space (which is how it's often written), then the situation is reversed for both Suzuki and Daihatsu. --DeLarge 12:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

That's strange, I have always heard of this vehicles being referred to as keicars, though I have more experience with non-English texts on the matter. So, what is the correct Japanese name for those and its romanization? I believe we should first and foremost follow Japanese terminology. I do not support moving to K-car, as this would create unnecessary confusion with Chrysler K-cars. Bravada, talk - 11:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd oppose the move. I first heard of "kei cars" about 15-20 years ago when they started importing them to Europe, and my experience in terms of journalists using it is the opposite of yours - I always see kei cars used, so it's definitely not a neologism created by Wikipedians. Jalopnik.com, one of the more popular automotive portals, has an entire section devoted to, and named after, keicars, while an Edmunds.com article only a month or two old referred to it. Further, English language press releases by manufacturers of the vehicles also use the term. Here's examples from Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Daihatsu.

I'd also be unhappy about a move away from a term where there's no confusion, to a term which right now requires a disambiguation because of the Chrysler reference.

Finally, I'd question your Google search parameters, as "K-car Japan" could in fact include references to Chryslers ~ you have to set the search up to avoid cross-references/duplications. A Googlefight between "K-car" +japan -chrysler and "K-car" +chrysler -japan indicates that the most common context is in fact in relation to Chrysler (38k to 28k), although with all these results, the relative paucity of results indicates a lack of conclusion either way.

PS while 'keicar' gets >10,000 hits, 'kei car' gets over a million. --DeLarge 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

DeLarge: WRT the manufacturers articles, the Suzuki Kei is actually the name of a particular car (IIRC similar to the Suzuki Ignis), the Mitsubishi page uses the term "kei minicars", and the Daihatsu page only uses the word "kei" to describe the source of the "K" in the engine name. Also, Googling 'kei car' leads to a lot of articles not really using the "kei car" term specifically and a lot of results about the Suzuki Kei. Googling "kei car" (with quote marks) only gets 885 results, and again some of these could be refering to the Suzuki Kei.

Bravada: The correct Japanese name is 軽自動車（けいじどうしゃ）, or "keijidōsha" as said in the article (I'm not sure if it should be romanised as "kei jidousha" though), with "kei" meaning "light" and "jidōsha" meaning "automobile". The Japanese WP seems to use "軽自動車" throughout discussion of such cars, and it seems to be used specifically to this restricted category. I have often seen references in English using the "kei" word (like "kei car", "kei class of cars", etc.), but rarely "keijidōsha" (or other romanisations).

OK, I guess "K-car" probably isn't the best solution, but I'm still not happy with the current name. I don't see why it should be one word, and the Google results for "keicar" are quite misleading as a significant amount of them are WP references (and some are articles which say "kei car" but the filename/webpage path contains "keicar"). What about "kei car", or just "keijidosha"? --Zilog Jones 14:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Given the Google results presented by DeLarge, the solution is obvious - "Kei car". Although the original name is different, it is quite related and appears to be in common usage in Western countries. There is also no article under this title yet. Any objections? Bravada, talk - 14:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

That's fine with me, and since there's no current redirect there we won't need to ask an admin to move it. --Zilog Jones 15:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Being bold, and since there's consensus here, I've moved it. --DeLarge 18:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Now there's the issue of renaming the category - that'll be... fun. --Zilog Jones 13:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Since there's been no dissenting comments, I'll count this category as a typographical error, which makes it eligible for speedy renaming. Fingers crossed... --DeLarge 09:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for that, I didn't have a clue what to do with regards to renaming cat's, and was kinda busy over the last few days. I'll try and contribute as much as possible to the category - I still have more plans for the Suzuki Wagon R article for starters, and sorting out cars with export models that barely resemble the Japanese versions (I'm not sure if the export Suzuki Alto was ever a real Alto O_o). --Zilog Jones 21:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] manufacturers

in my opinion, the manufacturers section is not exactly correct. the smart vehicle does not fit in the kei category as it has a width of 1,51m (1,56m for the new model), wider than the mandatory 1'48.

also, correct me if i'm wrong, but nissan has never been a kei manufacturer per se. it's been selling kei cars since 2001 (if i recall correctly), but they are produced by suzuki and mitsubishi, not by nissan.

mazda isn't a manufacturer too nowadays, as their products are rebadged suzukis, but can fit in there because it made its own models in the past.

i edited the page and wiped out smart, but did not deleted nissan and mazda for not being that nitpicking. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.44.41.212 (talk • contribs) 01:43, November 24, 2006.

Details of the Japan-only "Smart K" which is compliant with the regulations can be found at daimlerchrysler.co.jp --DeLarge 09:27, 24 November 2006 (UTC)