Talk:KC-135 Stratotanker

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Isn't the KC-135 built from one of the passenger jets? Like a 737 or 727? -- Zoe

Contents

[edit] Origins

Boeing 707 is based on pretty much the same airframe & engines as the A models. I'll see if I can beat Stan to working that into the article somehow. ;) -- John Owens 05:44 May 1, 2003 (UTC)
Actually, it's already in there, first sentence of the fifth paragraph. But it says "commercial 707" and isn't linked, so it doesn't stand out from the other numbers all over. Let's see if we can at least link that.... -- John Owens 05:45 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

You may include the accident In Geilenkirhcen (Germany) in the late nineties (I am not aware of other accidents). Reason for that: this plane is quite a danger for the airport´s´neighborhoods. KC-135 Statotanker, Air Refueling Aircraft. Please ref: the US Air Force Web Site for historical facts and data of this center piece of american air power.

I note that all the weights listed in the sidebar are incorrect, but I am quite curious as to WHY they are incorrect. I shouldn't think the AF would have a problem with my changing them but I do wonder if the article's original contributors might comment on why the numbers are off. Thehappysmith 16 September 2004

I think the caption on the picture is wrong. I don't think that's a F-22, I think it's the X-35 during testing. Could someone who's better at Aircraft ID check? --Mtnerd 04:50, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

-That's an F-22A Raptor, most likely tail number 91-4002. The easiest way to differenciate the two are by the engines. The F-22 has twin engines with "rectangular" nozzels. The X-35 has one engine and a round nozzel that looks more like an F-16's. Both aircraft incorporate thrust vectoring, however the X-35's nozzel is able to angle down more to assist with STOVL. Check the link to the F-22 in the caption for more pictures of the Raptor. --LedHed430 04:06, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Flew these airplanes for 15 years. The KC-135 was the original Boeing 717, the Boeoiing missing number until it was assigned to the current MD-80 derivitave. The data plate is in the crew entry chute giving this number as the Boeing number. The tanker is actually closer to the commercial Boeing 720, the long range verson of the 707. The oringinal A models were waterburners with J-57 engines. De-mineralized water was injected into the engines to provide additinal thrust for takeoff. This also created lots of noise and black smoke. We surmised the airplanes conveted JP4 and water to lots of noise but not much thrust. Takeoff ground rolls were long. Also, the EC-135 was not just Looking Glass. There were various models of the EC, the EC135C (Looking Glass), the J (Blue Eagle), and several others. They all made up the Airborne Command Post mission. Looking Glass was the SAC mission nickname for the Offutt based aircraft and it was tasked for 24 hour airborne alert. The other ABNCP aircraft were tasked with alert missions that included both airborne and ground alert. Been there!

[edit] ERRORS IN ARTICLE

The article states that the KC-135 R/T Models are only stationed at McConnell AFB, Kansas. However, references to this fact need to be presented, as I also can find references to KC-135 R/T Models used by the 92nd ARW, Fairchild AFB, Washington, which is also the largest KC-135 base in the nation.

Should this section be omitted?

I'm not the author of the above comments, but I added a "citation needed" tag for the statement in question. Itsfullofstars 00:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

"KC-135R/T" is the designation given to receiver KC-135s, the reference to Fairchild jets of KC-135R/T is simply saying that they have both KC-135R and KC-135T aircraft. The R/Ts are only at McConnell.Titanmiller 21:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AT RISK

I hesitate to insert an issue beyond the technical into this article. Perhaps the primary author could say a few words about the RISK that these pilots take in supporting combat operations.

In Laos KC-135s (without ejections seats) repeatedly extended their refueling tracts North to rescue F-105 combat aircraft returning with battle damage and/or near dry tanks. The KC-135 was then vulnerable to MiG attack. We should not allow the impression that crews of these modified airliners are somehow; well, airliner crews.

spoongap

Veteran of the skies soars into 50th year Cambridge Evening News http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/newmarket/2006/08/31/e2b9bf53-06ea-4bdb-abe8-05beee1a2903.lpf A VETERAN of the skies celebrates half-a-century of flying today (Thursday, 31 August).

The American Air Force's KC- 135 Stratotanker jets are a familiar sight in the region, operating from Mildenhall.

Most of the crews who fly the planes were not born when they first entered service and some pilots are the second generation to fly them.

The aircraft are the mainstay of the US Air Force's in-flight refuelling fleet and have played a key role in all major conflicts by keeping fighter and bomber planes in the air.

Colonel Mike Callis, vicecommander of the base's 100th Air Refuelling Wing, said: "It's an amazingly capable aeroplane and I think it's going to be around for a good while."

Col Callis, 46, has flown the planes since 1983 and followed in the footsteps of his father who flew some of the first aircraft to enter service.

He has flown other planes including the KC-10, a larger air refueller based on the DC-10 airliner, and C-17 transport plane.

But he said: "I still think this is the prettiest. I've enjoyed flying it."

Major updates, including the fitting of modern turbofan engines and computerised cockpit instrumentation, have helped keep the aircraft flying even though the last one rolled off the production line in 1965.

With no obvious replacement planned, Col Callis said it was possible that his two daughters, aged 20 and 15, could end up flying a KC-135 if they chose to join the Air Force.

To demonstrate the capability of the plane, and to mark the anniversary, the regional media was given the chance to fly on an air refuelling mission from Mildenhall.

The plane, built in 1963, passed nearly 10,000 gallons of fuel to eight F-15E Strike Eagle jets from the Lakenheath base over the sea off the Norfolk coast.

The refuelling was carried out in a little over 40 minutes while flying at 16,000ft and nearly 500mph.

The demonstration was a training exercise for the pilots involved to keep their skills up to scratch. But during conflicts such as the Iraq war, 4,600 planes were refuelled in flight by KC- 135s in all weathers during day and night.

During the 2005-6 year, Mildenhall's 15 KC-135s delivered nearly 15 million gallons of fuel in the air during 1,339 hours of flying.

Pilot Capt Josh Jensen, 29, said: "It's amazing to keep it going. It has its quirks, but it's a good bird." UK newspaper article.

[edit] Future of KC-135

Donald Rumsfield is full of shit. Cutting the replacement program for the KC-135 means a bunch of 60 year old dinosours be dying off one by one as they reach the limits of their maintainability. This will create a severe shortage of support aircraft in a 7-10 year time frame and eventually doom america's air force to short range missions once the airborne tankers are grounded. IT WILL HAPPEN.Gohiking 15:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Yea, they obviously were working on plans for the KC-X program last fall. -Fnlayson 22:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EC-135?

Why is the EC-135 in this article? Is it a mod of the KC-135 or the C-135 (in other words, did they remove the tanker gear?). Seems that a variant of the C-135 should be in that article rather than this one. Akradecki 01:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I assume you mean the paragraph right above the one about Pacer-CRAG in Modifications, unless there's another one! This pragraph aslo talks about the RC-135 and the OC-135, both of which have their own articles, and the WC-135. Unless we can confirm that some of the were converted KCs (and I believe some KC were converted to other roles; I don't remember which ones), then I'd agree the info should be moved to the C-135 article, and for the RC and OC, check to see if its in those articles.
Also, the paragraph on Pacer-CRAG begins with "its" in the first phrase. Since the last aircraft mentioned in the preceeding line is the WC-135, this should be changed, as I assume the program covered KC-135s. - BillCJ 02:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the orphaned its...I've fixed it. Acutally most of the other -135 variants also were modified by Pacer-CRAG, but that can be mentioned in their articles. Akradecki 04:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The sole external link didn't work when tested on 20 Dec 2006, so I added some more. I suggest eventual removal of the link to http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/boeing/nkc-135a.htm if the site continues to be non-responsive, but in the mean time I added a notation to say the link is non-working. Itsfullofstars 23:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It appears that aeroweb is no longer viable, but back copies are available at www.archive.org (The Internet Wayback Machine), so I changed the aeroweb link to use that instead. Itsfullofstars 01:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Update — Aeroweb is back online, at a new location: www.aero-web.org - Itsfullofstars 22:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NASA research

I added a paragraph about NASA research done with a KC-135, and included a citation link for those who wish to read a little more on that subject. A more detailed account about NASA's research into winglets can be read here Itsfullofstars 23:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italian KC-135

I've read the Seattle newspaper article that states that Italy uses 4 KC-135. However, I have printed sources that state that Italy uses military 707s for aerial refueling. (Frawley, Gerard: The International Directiory of Military Aircraft, pages 40-41. Aerospace Publications Pty Ltd, 2002. ISBN 1-875671-55-2.) I'm inclined to believe an aviation publication over a city newspaper, even one in Seattle. I'll keep checking around. - BillCJ 06:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, I found this reference that also lists the aircraft as "707T/T". If they're not KC-135s, some more info really ought to be dug up on these and added in the appropriate place. I know Omega was interested in developing a tanker version of the 707, but AFAIK they only produced one prototype. Four airframes intended for the program remain in storage at Mojave. Until more info become clear, I'll modify the article's statement. Akradecki 03:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The cited news article is quite old, from July 2001. The article states that by 2006 the Italian Air Force was to have 767 tankers instead... "The first of the four tankers is expected to be delivered to Italy in 2004, with the remaining three delivered in 2005 and 2006." I had deleted the first mention yesterday that Italy was using KC-135s because it was a completely unsourced assertion at the time, and it was added by a first-timer anonymous IP of 82.50.71.54. It looked more like a case of subtle vandalism to me than a legit edit, so that's why I deleted Italy from the operators. I probably should have simply added a {{fact}} tag instead. - Itsfullofstars 22:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Currently Boeing is filling the order for 4 Italian KC-767s.[1] -Fnlayson 02:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Here's an english translated version of the Italian AF 707 T/T data sheet. Says they got the 4 planes from Portugual. -Fnlayson 18:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Mystery solved! Italy originally had 4 707-300s, 3 of which were converted to tanker configuration by Aeritalia in 1988-89. The other remained a straight freighter; it, and one of the tankers are now in storage, leaving two operational. Photos of these can be seen here. The airframes are:
MM62148, c/n 20514, built as 707-3F5C, for the Portugese AF (then operated by TAP, Nigeria A/W, Air Malta, TAP), converted by Aeritalia 1989, currently reported as in storage.
MM62149 c/n 20298, built as 707-382B for TAP, converted to -3F5C by aeritalia 1988, currently operational.
MM62150 c/n 19740, built as 707-382B for TAP, freighter only, not tanker, sold to Boeing then to Omega, currently in storage.
MM62151 c/n 20515, built as 707-3F5C, for the Portugese AF (then operated by TAP, Nigeria A/W, Air Malta, TAP), converted by Aeritalia 1989, currently operational.
I have also found that the Israeli AF also operated converted 707s, calling them "KC-707s", at least in one ref. I suppose that some of this should probably be summarized over in the 707 article sometime. I have amended the note in the KC-135 article to reflect this, feel free to reword if you think it can be said better. Akradecki 22:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Good work. Since these are not actual KC-135s (387 based), I think we should carry this to the 707. -Fnlayson 22:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
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