Talk:Kate Moss

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Portal:Biography
 Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments
This article is supported by the Arts and Entertainment work group.
Fashion WikiProject
Portal:Fashion
 Fashion Portal
This article is within the scope of the Fashion WikiProject. Please work to improve this article, or visit our project page to find other ways of helping. Thanks!
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
High This article is on a subject of high-importance within fashion.

Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh)

Taking B rating from WP:BIO. High importance because she defined the era of pathologically skinny supermodels. Daniel Case 15:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Peer review This article was externally reviewed on February 12, 2006 by The Independent. "Factually, this is dead accurate, though it is cloaked in po-faced language"

Contents

[edit] Opening comments

Her career lacked reference. she is one fineeee and sexyy mamaaaaaaaa The measurements are incorrect according to her official agency. Her background was listed incorrectly and the story from the link provided was by ANOTHER Kate Moss and is more than just incorrect.

Why the link to an article that has two lines forefront above the subject matter... Kate Moss and Kate Mosse need not be linked.

Another beef about this page would be the fact that ALL the links with the exception of the Storm model page (her management company or agency) would either be sex links, fan sites or unreliable third party sources... including IMBD which is a third party source far too often. These should be removed.

First off she started nothing... the management company, photographers, bookers, magazines, designers all started the "waif" look... not her. And given her height she is not skinny compared to Gisele Bundchen or other top models. These days she is for her height... moving into large for a top model. Mental illness causes eating disorders not magazines. This is not a forum for bitter over weight people looking to blame someone for poor eating habits.

Known to be 5,8 commonly (included with her management book - the only professional reference worth while noting)... and is by far not the shortest model in the world... not even the shortest super-model currently.

Yes it's all very funny but you know it was a different Kate Moss who wrote the book about sex for caretakers of the developmentally whatever. The book is online (google for it) as a pdf.

Hello! Earlier version listed the height as 5'6". However the official page lists it as 5'8". I'm also adding/correcting the details based on what I've found at the official page and at IMDB page. Other info. has been obtained from the trivia page at celebavenue.com. celebavenue.com lists the info as being in public domain. I checked the spelling mistakes and grammar and I hope all is OK ;-). Lazyd0g 13:03, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Either she was 10 when she was discovered or she was born in 1970. The way it is now, the math doesn't add up. DCEdwards1966 05:40, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I found the date she was discovered on IMDB and changed it. DCEdwards1966 05:50, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I added the details of her daughter ... if this breaches some sort of protocol, please delete. RatherConfused 13:22, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


It's universally known that Kate Moss is 5"6. Modelling agencies tend to lie. And there is no need to be rude.

[edit] Facts and Figures

"She has appeared on over 300 magazine covers"... Right. Add another zero to that at least. Of course, the statement: "She has appeared on over 1 magazine cover" is also correct in a way. The source is "usmagazine.com" (who?), which perhaps goes to show the American leanings of Wikipedia. I'd have at least got a reference from English Vogue, a modelling agency, Elle magazine, something similar, or nothing at all. Think about it. 300 a year more like.
Cheers!

[edit] Cleanup

I have put cleanup note on this article, not least because of the following

  • "Moss has dated Johnny Depp in the past." How is this relevant enough to warrant a whole paragraph?
  • "Moss has dated an endless string of persons known and unknown." Meaningless and of no interest.
  • "famous for clashes with local gendarmes" - colloquial, and unhelpful.
  • "Doherty's girlfriend dying of mysterious causes." Innuendo.
  • "adored not only by the haute couture but by the everyday plebian as well". POV

Edit, forgot to sign: Dave 17:02, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Found her because of the CNN article, but I'd never heard of her before. I attempted a cleanup, but I left the notice until people with a better knowledge of her are able to check it. Sahasrahla 17:12, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Dave, sorry but what you said is quite stupid. All of those things that were written are perfectly fine and people generally like to know them. She is a celebrity and when it comes to writing facts about them, relationships are of a big importance.

Do you know anything about Wikipedia? It's meant to be an encyclopedia, not the online version of the National Enquirer. While her relationships may be of interest, the above criticisms are quite valid, and, frankly, this article is in rather poor shape. 69.217.127.66 23:27, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

This article is very poor - I cleaned up the titles, so it's tidier and corrected some of the bad grammar. I was going to delete all of the businesses section because it is not that relevant and only one sentence. Perhaps someone could work into the rest of the article? Jockmonkey 03:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

--I'm going to take out the bit about Pete Doherty's girlfriend dying of mysterious causes until someone can actually prove that it happened. I've never heard of it happening.

[edit] Height

The (documented?) claim that Moss is unusually small for a model sounded to me like POV original research, and so I have removed it, SqueakBox 19:01, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Philanthropy?

Possing in prego porn and helping ROCK BANDS is philanthropy? Wow, wikipedia can be full of sometimes. 209.124.118.111

Perhaps it can be reworded without being removed, SqueakBox 19:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

-purple & white roving philanthropic van - how about the philanthropy of the 1,000s invited into the purple & white van from New Mexico to New England for a sip of champagne and "comfort" from the nude goddess ? isn't that philanthropy enough for all you sons o b***** ???

[edit] NPOV section

The whole section on the cocaine controversy is badly POV. In particular, I'm tempted to just hack out this portion completely:

The news including the alledged photos, appear to be clearly the result of criminal wiretapping -- illegal photographs and illegal eavesdropping -- those illegal acts then further participated in by the publishing of that criminally obtained information. And perhaps aided by payment for the info obtained criminally. UK tabloids as the Daily Mirror have a long history of extreme attacks on any and all to pump newspaper sales. These attacks and news presentations are beyond any seen in e.g. the USA.

This is simply an attack on the Daily Mirror to divert attention from the real issue. I expect this sort of low tactic in newspapers, but it hardly seems proper in a wikipedia article.

Thoughts? --221.249.13.34 07:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


  • I agree.-86.138.4.141 21:40, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


I think it's reasonably NPOV now, so I've removed the NPOV tag. It's still crap, but it's probably not worth tidying up until the current excitement dies down. --221.249.13.34 06:30, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Publishing an Illegally Obtained Wiretap

The Daily Mirror has been ordered by UK court to turn over the illegally obtained movie clip of alleged girl using some white powder.

Video or sound recordings made without permission are illegal in UK & USA and anyone making such recordings and wiring to obtain that video or sound recording is commiting usually a crime (only exception is court ordered wiretaps) (, except for wiretapping ordered by President GW Bush).

Paying for any such illegally obtained video recording does not then make that video legal. Publishing such an illegally obtained video does NOT make it then legal.

Publishing an illegally obtained video can be aiding and abetting that original crime of illegally obtaining that video.

Publishing lewd, lacivious materials is normally slander.

Daily Mirror has been ordered by UK court to turn over the illegally obtained movie clip of *alleged girl using some white powder. Video or sound recordings made without permission are illegal in UK & USA and anyone making such recordings and wiring to obtain that video or sound recording is commiting usually a crime (only exception is court ordered wiretaps). Paying for any such illegally obtained video recording does not then make that video legal. Publishing such an illegally obtained video does NOT make it then legal. Publishing an illegally obtained video can be aiding and abetting that original crime of illegally obtaining that video.

  • alleged girl - as see picture above where Moss supposedly is sitting down

but has a nose about triple the size of her petit nose.

Publishing lewd, lacivious materials is normally slander.

The Daily Mirror is owned by News Inc the media (esp newspaper) holding company) owned entirely by the Murdoch family - mainly Rupert Murdock and run by his son Lachlan Murdoch. SY is checking out the origination of this video run by the Daily Mirror to see if it was "ordered" / requested and "then", paid for by the Daily Mirror and / or Murdoch family clan.

(Hiring such an illegal wiretapping and then mass publishing it could be the grounds for a a mega lawsuit with clearly damages from such criminal wrongful behavior trebled, and noting the damages ONLY begin with the millions of lbs of lost income by Moss (easily proven by the contracts)(estimates 4-8 million US Dollars) and arguably reputation damage many multiples of that to only THEN be trebled. These are values clearly in excess of the entire value of the Daily Mirror. And noting the cover picture of the Daily Mirror on this website page with its ongoing damage to Moss; and with Daily Mirror still maintaining websites with the whole story and pictures all continuing damage over millions of persons.)

Hiring another person to wiretap or video record an illegal video does not make it then legal because it was prepaid for and if not pre ordered or requested, paying for such a criminallly obtained video can be aiding and abetting the original criminal who recorded it. And again, publishing an illegally obtained video does not legalize / make legal that criminally obtained video.

All use of such illegally obtained information / evidence would normally be barred from court room use esp in USA, but presambly also in the UK; and any further statements / confessions resulting from such an illegally obtained video (as e.g. by the other band members of Babyshambles that were perhaps present...) would also usually be excluded from court room use in both the UK and USA, as those statements / confessions are "tainted" or made illegal by the original criminal obtaining of the original video....

If any cocaine powder was present and used, is that use a criminal event of greater import than criminally recording that use and then mass publishing that criminally obtained information resulting in millions of lbs of damage that is obvious to all (Moss's lost employment contracts).

Or can the POT call the kettle BLACK and be roundly applauded by you all ?

Further Sources: 18 USCA 1961-1965 Racketeering (RICO) Statutes whereby committing more than two of the listed 40 offenses (such felonies as e.g. wiretapping, extortion, mail fraud (all those 100s of 1000s of newspapers mailed out with this story), then establishes the perpetrating company / entity as a Rico / Racketeering ogranization subject to having all its profits seized and the entity shut down; and individual perpetrators be given about 5 years per felony (100s of 1000s here with each newspaper reader being a concluded felony of publishing that wiretap illegal info).

These statutes ALSO authorize any civilian (damaged by such racketeering activity) to bring a lawsuit for treble damages under 18 USACA 1964.

[edit] measurements

she is known for her thin, slight figure. those measurements definitely seem wrong.

[edit] Legacy

I have rermoved this section which was drawing conclusions, not NPOV and generally unencyclopedic. It added nothing, SqueakBox 19:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Freud painting

Was that painting ever put on show or was is a completely private sale? ZephyrAnycon 00:13, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pete Doherty

Some one wrote this about Kate dumping him = "and to rid herself of no good boyfriend Pete Doherty"

Yeah, some one should sort that out, it's not very neutral. <nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>

Why is there such little mention about her and pete's relationship? they are living together, have been together for over a year and are pretty much engaged. I don't understand. Feudonym 02:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First trip to rehab

This was referred to at the time as treatement for 'exhaustion'; this is common PR speak that covers up bigger issues, and as such the sentence explaining this trip shouldn't be presented as fact. It may have been the story she, or her manager, used to explain it, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

This stay at a psychiatric center was not a stay at a "rehab" center for substance abuse and was for temporary upset over separation from regular full time boyfriend Big Willy Sr (/s/ Big Willy Sr -the Source).

[edit] Cocaine use and POV on Mirror comments

The paragraph on the Mirror's treatement of Moss is verging on POV and needs to be re-edited. this isn't unusual treatment for a celebrity, and her cocaine use has been gossiped about widely, and in more places than the Mirror (see Popbitch and Holymoly over the past 5 years). Is the use of 'allegedly' in relation to the photo proper? It seems very clear cut that she was using drugs in them.

Oh no it doesn't. For the sam reason that ther police wopn't charge here we cannot claim that the white substance was cocaine; that would be libellous, it might be flour she could argue, SqueakBox 13:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Squeakbox, your points are valid and I understand and agree with them to a degree, but given that few individuals have anything to gain from snorting substances such as flour, there is a narrow array of substances that Moss could have been snorting on that day, and most (if not all) of them are drugs of some sort (prescription drugs included). The evidence is just stacked against Moss in this case. blackmorningsun 8:16, 31 July 2006

I removed the reference to cocaine addict in the intro sentence. It is covered elshere in the article and is not really appropriate in a general opening sentence. Master shepherd 05:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

Twiggy, trying to grab some attention, is now a source for Kate's "real" height?!?! Please! Get real!!! She is listed as 5'8". NOWHERE official, is her height listed as 5'6. GOSSIP!!! Somebody should remove this, asap.

The original Calvin Klein ad garnered attention due to Kate's age, NOT her weight.

Kate is on this page BECAUSE she IS a celebrity. Therefore her relationships with other celebrities ARE of significance.

Regarding the issue with her measurements... try and understand she is in her 30's now. She will not have maintained the same measurements she had when she was 14.

As for the links... why are there so many fan sites listed?! There are perfectly good links to Vogue.com and other recognized fashion magazines (she is a fashion model... remember?!) available that FAN sites can be avoided.

Yes, the Twiggy citation should be removed. Anyway, didn't Kate Moss say during an interview at some point that she was just under 5 foot 6? I'll see if I can find it. --65.25.219.139 22:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

About the notes here regarding Kate's height, while she is officially listed as 5'8", she is widely known in the modeling world to be 5'6". The Twiggy comment may be exaggerated (dunno, you can check Twiggy's autobiography to see what she really says...Twiggy might be a little taller than 5'4" herself anyways) though. But I know people who have worked with her and who have met her--they all agree she is somewhere between 5'6" to 5'7". Also, the measurements, especially the heights of models on their comp cards and agency listings are usually modified. (Check out Storm Models listing Kate's bust as a 34B--she is definitely NOT even close to that.)

Modeling agencies usually have a 5'9" to 5'11" standard for models--heights are therefore often changed to fit more or less in this range. 5'8" is even pushing it a bit for runway...etc.

Anyways, the point of this is that Kate's height being 5'6" may not be 100% certain, but it is no less certain than the listed 5'8" and is probably closer to her actual height due to these many factors. It's not just gossip.

[edit] "Other business involvements"?

Whether it's nonsense or not that section is very poorly worded and there's an advertisement in it, i.e. a picture that has a link for "WATCH TV AD" right by it.

Thanks for flagging that. I have removed the section, SqueakBox 15:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

next is removed section - added here by Shake Big orginally written by Shake Big Willy Wyde Johnson SR Kate's biz mgr familiar with her biz activities...

<< Other Business Involvement Kate is the largest business person in history of any supermodel owning many business globally. The annual income of these businesses dwarfs (10x to 100x) not only supermodel annual incomes of 5--20 million dollars, but is more than the Gross National Product of all but the largest 20 entire countries. (That is, the comm sector income is > $5-10 billion US annually.)

While perfumes and cigars are her leading products, the actual largest is heavy communications businesses. And additionally owning many buildings across the globe worth several billion dollars. >> /x/ Shake Big, (Shake-descendant of Mohammed (PBUH), Count of Holy Roman Empire and Knight of the Pope, KM Biz Mgr & CFO)>>

The above in diamond brackets << >> is absolute BS !! /s/ Gint Johnson

[edit] Modelling details

The Modelling details section should be removed as the information it provides can change very often and hence not suitable for inclusion in an encyclopaedia. --Soumyasch 16:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Madonna Painting by Lucien Freund & Madonna of Plums Pic

Lucien Freud famous UK painter painted Moss as Madonna (pose) and besides that paint, there is also a pic of her as Madonna of Plums at this link.

Who is the father of her child ?

[edit] clean up required - and most urgently!!!

The article is full of rumours, speculations and conjectures - more or less unproven. Not very encyclopedic, this. Wikipedia is NOT a tabloid or a gossip magazine. So what we need here is a major clean up to reach WP-standards, yes. --Fromgermany 23:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I think most facts have citations now.. mirageinred 17:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
The comment about Kate and Pete marrying yesturday reduces the article to what could be seen as tabloid gossip, this should be sourced if it is true or corrected immediately as it reduces the overall perception of quality considerably. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.36.21 (talk) 13:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

I have deleted the comment discussed as it is apparently untrue --81.155.36.21 13:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)Sazzlej -- 13:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures??

ok are these really the best photo's we can come up with??? someone change atleast the first one, even the calvin klien picture isnt really that good, she is a model so i doubt it'l be that hard to find atleast one good photo of her. --Fabio 01:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

It's definitely not difficult to find pictures of her (there are thousands) it's more abotu finding pictures that we are allowed to use on wikipedia. I like the CK one, but the first one isn't that great. I'll look around. -- Bang Bang You're Dead 20:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The photos here show that she is unhealthily thin and there are these strange scars/cuts (lots of them) on her right buttock. I am not sure how to properly include this information in the article. Anomo 03:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

They're called stretch marks you tit. Every woman has them. Bang Bang You're Dead, 02:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kate Moss Weight

Is her weight for a fact 107 since I have heard from many sources 105 as well?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.141.12.18 (talk • contribs) 00:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

What difference does two pounds make? Her weight flactuates anyway. 212.139.222.62 18:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music Involvements

In the music involvements there is one paragraph about the music and then the rest is about different topics all in one section and it doesnt seem very organized. --24.141.12.18 01:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sun Page 3 appearance - Kate, 32 from Croydon

This isn't mentioned anywhere - is it worthy of mention? Stupidly, I can't find a source apart from a question asked on a celebrity edition of The Weakest Link on Saturday 30th December.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../k/a/t/Talk%7EKate_Moss_eabe.html"