Talk:Katana

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Contents

[edit] European Bias

I am neither European nor Japanese, so I am relatively objective. But, is it just me or is the article, particularly the last article EXTREMELY biased towards a European perspective. I realize none of you will agree because of well...who you people are, but just letting you know what the article sounds like. p.s. I don't know if this is a European or white thing, I doubt the latter, but words such as "extremely exaggerated" are not very objective. --Yellowfiver 00:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The article is currently undergoing revision. If you'd be kind enough to point out specific elements of bias, we could try to get them cleaned up. Thanks! -xiliquiernTalk 02:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

The article on the Jintachi says that it was invented in 1550 and was a predecessor to the katana.

Not possible. The katana (uchigatana, if you want to be specific) already saw widespread use during the early Muromachi, just some time after 1392. Secondly, I have never come across the term "jintachi" before, and all Google seems to be finding are suspicious wallhangers. CABAL 13:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Resolved, here and on jintachi. jintachi (no) koshirae seems to have been bastardized by anime and wallhanger-makers into jintachi, which does not match any real blade or koshirae over used. I added text here about how the katana form came to be. — jesup 16:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Text Needing Removal

There is a line in this article that needs removing, but I can't see where to edit it out.

The text is:

"katanas can also be forged by using the flesh of goats with paper. the resaulting is the best katana EVER!"

And is located just above the Decoration section. However, when I go to edit the page, this text does not appear.

I don't see it. Somebody must have fixed the problem. If you still see it, please make sure you're looking at the most recent version of the article (click the Article tab above the article title), and let us know again. Thanks! Fg2 01:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
You were looking at an oudated copy of the page. I checked the page history, and that was fixed a while back. See here. CABAL 06:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing the "Famous Historic katana users"

I see no reason or purpose whatsoever of a "Famous Historic katana users"-section. Sword-smiths yes, sword-users no. Its like having a "famous pistol-users" section on the pistol article: simply too many to name to make it even remotely interesting. It is a waste of space.Fred26 11:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If any one user has such a heavy importance they can be mentioned elsewhere in the article or, if really pressing, a list can be created. -xiliquiernTalk 15:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed jesup 01:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks like there is vandal loose (or maybe two) that are trying to change Jesups vote to "opose" (not even spelled properly). Fred26 16:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Comparison... section.

The section is completely OR, not sourced(only provided link does not mention anything said in the section) and is incorrect in the history of Katana. The section compare the shorter version 打刀 with single handed or one and a half handed swords, where earlier Katanas like 太刀 are generally longer, weighted similar to two handed swords like Claymore and is designed to fight against Armoured opponents. 野太刀 and 大太刀 are even longer and heavier(up to 220cm in length) which is nowhere near the discription of Not effective against Armour. What I have said here is sourced from the Japanese and Chinese wiki, may not be the perfect source, but is still way better than the unsourced OR of the removed section. MythSearchertalk 05:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article Review for potential delisting

I'm not sure when or why this article was promoted to GA class, but it appears to never have been through peer review, or ever underwent GA review. In my opinion, it fails to meet a number of GA criteria. Please visit WP:GA/R to support or oppose delisting. Bradford44 04:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It went Featured article review in February 2005 which it failed for a number of reasons. It was nominated for GA status 1st of August 2006 and promoted without comment two weeks later. In my opinion the FA request was very premature not only with respect to the problems but also due to the fact that the article was far from stable (read lots of contention). Several of the points in the original rejection were not addressed. I would delist and submit the article for peer review before renominating for GA-status.Peter Rehse 05:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Since there was no dissenting opinion and several supporting delisting - I've delisted this article as a Good Article.Peter Rehse 08:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

From the original nomination we have the following with the numbers refering to Wikipedia:What is a good article? I'm recommending this article for delisting, for failure to meet the following GA criteria:

  • arguably 1(a)
  • 1(c), specifically the WP:MOS-JP
  • 1(d)
  • very strongly 2(a)

This article is in need of quite a bit of polish, and needs many more citations before qualifying for GA status, in my opinion. Bradford44 04:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] katana vs nihonto

I wouldn't call nihonto from the 700's "Katana"; they were generally tachi (or ken or tanto). "Katana" is a term and a style of sword (and how one carries the sword) that originated around the 1400's. So I'll change 700 back to 1400. While this article verges on being about nihonto in general, the title is "Katana". — jesup 21:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The term from the 1400 starts out as uchigatana, and katana is actually an earlier word used in the 1200s to describe a fighting knife, what we now refer to as tanto. Dr. Sato actually describes it as a rather general term. Katana took over from uchigatana as tachi were phased out heading to 1500. Uchigatana is often confused with katate-uchi, which is the typical one-handed fighting sword of the period. Not sure how much of that is ok to migrate to the article. Mars11 22:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Err... Katana is a pretty general term. It is in fact the Japanese original word for curved blades before using the kanji pronounciation as to or chi(currently all 3 pronouciation carries the same kanji). MythSearchertalk 01:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] photographs

I own copyright on some high quality professional sword photographs, and would be willing to grant use here if someone gives me a heads up on how to do so. Mars11 22:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

All you need to do is register on Wikipedia Commons, hit "upload file" and choose an appropriate license from the list provided. A guide is given on Commons:Commons:First steps/Upload form. Chris Cunningham 10:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I would love to see more photos - I noticed one image had the granular patterning of the steel on the side I think was mentioned in the article. This is one article where the inclusion of many beautiful photos would be welcomed and appreciated and I dont think that any number would be too many.... Mattjs 05:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
There are plenty of katana images over at the Commons that could be linked to from the article. They're found here specifically. CABAL 17:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unnecessary Links

Some of these links really don't need to be here, namely the Zanpakutō link. This is an article about a real Japanese weapon and the Japanese culture, NOT about anime shows and the weapons the animators imagine. Darkskul 22:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to be ruthless. This article has a history of anime incursion. Chris Cunningham 11:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tachi as primary weapon?

Under Use there is the following paragraph:

The tachi became the primary weapon on the battlefield during the Kamakura period, used by cavalry mounted samurai. The sword was mostly considered as a secondary weapon until then, used in the battlefield only after the bow and spear were no longer feasible. During the Edo period samurai went about on foot unarmored, and with much less combat being fought on horseback in open battlefields the need for an effective close quarter weapon resulted in samurai being armed with daisho.

This is not only unsourced, but also fails to explain why the spear wouldn't be the primary battlefield weapon during the Kamakura period, and it also seems to suggest that the spear was out of vogue ever since. Which of course was not the case. My suggestions would be something in order of

  • listing source
  • more information as to why a cheaper and easier to use and learn weapon would not be preferred on the battlefield
  • specifying that the spear/pike was, in fact, the preferred weapon on the battlefield whether peasant or warrior (except if there is actual evidence to suggest otherwise for certain eras)

Am I being unreasonable?Tsuka 10:38, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you are being unreasonable. The quoted statement seems a bit off or maybe he/she expressed it too vagely. Everything I've read says that it was the spear that became the primary weapon during these times and also during most of the Sengoku Jidai-era, and that the spear was preferred in battle with the sword being the fall-back weapon. Fred26 20:20, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
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