Talk:Karachi

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[edit] This article sucks

"omg karachi is so awesome dont listen to zionist propaganda it is amazing" Thats what this article sounds like. That or a GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN TRAVEL BROCHURE TO KARACHI.

DigiBullet 21:10, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

This is a wonderful resource. I'm from karachi and I think starting neighbourhood pages is a good idea. I'll try to contribute towards this article very soon. brb

Thigns to be added. I will work on this hopefully if I get time. Location, History, Contemporary situation, Government, Population, Airport, Transort, Sport, Culture - Music, Theatre, Art, Museums, Cuisine, Economy, Tourist Attractions, Geography, Climate, Demographics, Educational and Cultural institutions, probelms, Radio Stations, Telephone Numbers, Timeline.

Aalahazrat 22:30، 31 ‏Mar 2004 (UTC)

This reads like a travel brochure to Karachi rather than an encyclopedia entry.

[edit] Images

Dear all contributors,

I have expanded the Karachi page alot. Added intro templet (which no other pak city has so far). I did not remove any existing pic (though replace one and put it in proper place).

User:M.Imran 17 Nov 2005 - Karachi.

[edit] Images : Cleanup required

Too many oversized images in the page. Too many images without captions. --DuKot 06:23, 1 August 2005 (UTC) I have reduced the size of some images. Somebody who is more familiar with the city should better organize the pics. Some of the pics could be removed. For example there are too many pictures in the transportation section. Most images dont have captions. --DuKot 06:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture removal

Image:Kimari flyovers.jpg and Image:Karachi at night.JPEG are both liscensed under a Creative Commons ShareAlike 1.0 License, which requires proper attribution to the author. Since neither does so, I have removed them from the article. Please feel free to add similar pictures to enhance this article. Also, if someone could provide more picture on the Jinnah picture; I'm inclined to say that the picture was published in India and thus it is released into Indian public domain. If someone could find the year it was originally published, it would be much appreciated. Pepsidrinka 20:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frere Hall picture

There was already a picture of Frere Hall in the Karachi page and another one has been added by 213.121.151.190.

Siddiqui 16:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I. I. Chundrigar Road Photo

We have to find a proper image of I I Chundrigar Road. All existing images are unacceptable to members. I have removed the existing image with long wall in front of distant skyline. It is better to have no image rather than unacceptable photo.

Siddiqui 02:50, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nice page

I liked the page about this important place in Pakistan, a state on the western side of the Indian subcontinent. Thanks and regards. --Bhadani 16:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Needs cleanup

This page needs cleanup. For exaple, how can a cool ocean breeze be considered in the Problems section?

I changed كراچي to كراچى . For all the complaints, I have one positive point. This is the first Pakistani or Iranian page I haven't had to add minority religions like Zoroastrianism or Buddhism to. If notable tourist sites are added it is also worth noting there is a Fire Temple over 150 years old near Dr. Daudpota Road. Khirad 01:43, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Land Ownership

I am removing few lines and words from the section Landownership that seem un-necessary or BIASED view against the Govt. and people of Sindh. Aursani 13:51, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I wrote that section. If you consider that some lines were biased then you should have pointed them out before removing them. That section was based on the report of Urban Resource Center.
Siddiqui 16:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about terrorism?

I'm writing on March 2, 2006 in the wake of the suicide bombing that killed the U.S. envoy to Karachi along with several of his staff. While I am certainly no expert on Pakistan, my impression is that Karachi has a conspicuous history of problems with terrorism, violent demonstrations, kidnappings and other negative effects of Islamic fundamentalism. My impression is that Karachi may be nearly as unsettled as the Pashtu ethnic regions around the Kyber Pass and other parts of the Afghan border.

Actually I visited this Wiki article in hopes of learning something about the social, ethnic, religious and political dynamics that make Karachi such a problematic city. I was very disappointed to find only a brief mention of terrorism and other forms of semi-organized violence, about half a sentence. Certainly anyone considering living and working in Karachi, or even just a short visit, needs a much more extensive briefing on Karachi's dangers, lest they "come home in a box".

reply: I agree with this person. Karachi has been badly hit by militancy since the mid 1980's, first by ethnic militia MQM and then by fundamentalists since 1995. it needs to be part of an article about Karachi, or a separate article about Militancy in Karachi. Its an ugly topic but relevant. Militancy has damaged karachi enormously.
However I dont believe Karachi is in the same class as the border areas. It is a huge city and the people have not let terrorism ruin it completely. The border areas are only now being brought under government control and violent anti-authority militants being tackled. On a final note, Pashtuns constitute a significant part of the Pakistani population, they are majority in FATA and NWFP and big part of Baluchistan and Pakistani cities. I am in fact a Pashtun who grew up in NWFP.
Reply 2: But there are thousands of foreigners still in the city , As a Karachiite i will say Avoid going to imam bargah mosques, staying at Marriott hotel because it is very near to American consulate, going to KFC restaurant outlet lol (the only outlet targeted 3 times) and to inform you there are no any violent demonstrations in the city uptil now and about kidnapping of US journalist Pearl so he is the only one. tell me how many in US kidnap daily.
Karachi is most multiethnic and multinational city of Pakistan. It has the distinction of being the largest Urdu speaking, Pashto speaking, Seraiki speaking and Balochi speaking city in the world. There are refugees from Afghanistan, Iran, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and various Arab countries. It is very difficult to control the inflow of people settling in Karachi. The government does not have resources or intelligence to keep tabs on all the groups. Many Karachiities consider the violence and terrorism in their city as part of a conspiracy.
Beyond military violence, Karachi's crime probably has as bad an effect on the city as the terrorism. If you were to expand on the violence in Karachi, it is integral that not all violence be labeled under Islamic fundamentalism.
Siddiqui 16:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Reply to Siddiqui: The worthless conspiracy theories that Karachiites believe in neither explain why there is so much violence or how it can be stopped. Neither is that a satisfactory answer as to why there is so much violence.
Karachi is a mini Pakistan since it has millions of each ethnic group in Pakistan. There are also Iranians, Afghans, Arabs, Bengalis, Burmese, etc. Due to to its multiethnic nature Karachi is soft spot for violence and terrorism.
Siddiqui 22:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Port Fountain

Nice page, however I dont know if that really is the world's tallest fountain. Could whoever wrote that please cite/ reference that information? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.97.14.251 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Proposed merger with Karachi District

I oppose the merger and instead propose that the Karachi District article should become a redirect. There is some confusion I think about the whole districts and city-districts issue. Karachi City District is exactly the same entity as Karachi, Karachi City, Karachi District and the old Karachi Division. A reader might get the impression that Karachi City and Karachi District are two separate entities. This can be cleared up by adopting a standard approach to the districts of Pakistan. The city-districts should have the main articles at the proper city name and all the other variations in the name should redirect to the city name. Karachi City District, Karachi City, Karachi District, District of Karachi should all redirect readers to Karachi. The same should apply to Lahore, Islamabad, Quetta, Peshawar etc. In the case of ordinary districts, the main article should be at Foo District and not Foo, because for example Bahawalpur is the city, which forms only part of Bahawalpur District. I hope that makes sense and nobody objects to the changes. Green Giant 23:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I oppose the merger or redirect. Karachi District should be left as separate page. --Spasage 05:42, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having two separate articles that are talking about the same thing? Everything that can be said about the district can be included in the article on the city. It's like having separate articles for the city of Paris and Paris as a département when they are the same thing. This also prevents content forking. Polaron 05:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
IMO all districts should have their own article. Even if it is very short. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 12:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
At the United States articles, if the city and county are coextensive, they use the same article. Example: San Francisco County, California and Orleans Parish, Louisiana redirect to San Francisco and New Orleans, respectively. If Karachi and Karachi District are indeed perfectly coextensive, then they should probably be in the same article. An exception might exist in the case of Mexico City and Mexican Federal District, but the combination of the two is a rather recent event, and the district page is not a stub, unlike the Karachi District page. However, it does put a kink in my comment. :P --Golbez 19:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
However, Karachi District states: "It is largely conterminous with Pakistan's largest city, Karachi." If it is not exactly the same, then no, the two should NOT be merged. Only identical districts should be in the same article.
Likewise, only districts which share a government should be in the same article. So, back to the US example, if Orleans Parish had its own government independent of New Orleans, then they should be different articles. (A good example of this is Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania - the county still retains some government duties, even though the city and county are coterminous. Also, the county had a long history separate from the city, unlike SF county, Orleans parish, and most likely, Karachi district. And, finally, the state recognizes the county as being separate from the city; I don't know if Pakistan or Sindh recognize Karachi distrct as being a separate entity from the city) --Golbez 19:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I have not been able to find any indication that the city and district are not coextensive. From looking at the official Karachi website, the district and city governments are also merged. Also, all the information in Karachi District is now in Karachi. I am going to redirect the Karachi District page to Karachi. If someone has any sources that the two entities are not identical, then please share them. Polaron | Talk 14:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Karachi district and Karachi are identical. There is no need for seperate pages. KO 08:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Given that "Karachi District" is to (and for) all extents and purposes the same as Karachi, I don't think that there's any need for redundancy--if anything, a redirect would seem to me to be sufficient. There's really no particular reason for the articles to exist separately given that the information contained within KD could easily be summarised in a slightly more detailed Karachi article with some strict editing.

[edit] Some comments

Hi! May I recommend some modifications so that the article gets to a stage of peer review, and also FAC:

  1. Combine "Art and literature" with "Culture and lifestyle". Culture should encompas art and literature as well. Also neither of the 2 sections are large.
  2. Instead of "Educational institutions", have a section called "Education" in which both the educational patterns followed in the city and notable institutions may be discussed.
  3. It is better to remove the list material from "Sites of interest". It is even better to remove the section. Please try to incorporate major sites of interest in other sections. However, if you want the section to be there, please try to make it in paragraph format rather than list format. A daughter article may be created if necessary.
  4. Shopping subsection really does not need to be a seperate subsection. Major points may be discussed in, say, culture.
  5. Sections "Problems" and "Land ownership" better be removed. The contents may be incorporated within "Government" or a new section "Civiv administration".
  6. A "Karachi-related topics" in "See also" section would be very nice.

These are my observations. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Good ideas Dwaipayanc, I have made a start on some of them such as Education. I am in favour of cutting down the Sites of Interest and then moving them to relevant sections. Green Giant 23:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'll remove other channel names too

If you remove names of Sindhi channels from the page, I'll remove names of other channels as well. Refrain from Vandalism. Aursani 17:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kindly refrain from prejudice

What gives, i am a Karachite also.. but mention on Sindhi channels??... come on, refrain from bigotry, i mean Pakistan as nation is one... no need to seperate sindhis, punjabis and others.. Iquadri

To be fair, I don't think we should mention anything other than the two or three largest channels. If you look through this article, there is still a tendency to make long lists of things (universities, sites of interest, and now TV channels). Mercifully, there is no list of famous Karachiites. I will look into this matter at the weekend to see if there is any reason to keep most of the long lists. Green Giant 23:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

What, no listing of famous Karachi residents?!?!? The horror! ;) I agree with you--I would only keep the major "network"-status TV channels, such as Geo, ARY etc. I also think that the "sites of interest" section needs to either be spun off into a separate article or maybe limited to a dozen or so places.

[edit] Improvements

I've made several changes and additions, mainly to the images, captions, and their layout. Hope this improves the appearance and impact of the page. Please supply any missing copyright info on the pictures, as I could not locate some of it.

It might be useful to add some pictures of major proposed landmarks, such as the Port Tower. Please add, if anyone has an appropriate picture (the ones I've seen are poor quality), so that Karachi's resurgent dynamism and modern face can be better conveyed to balance its traditional heritage which is already well-covered.

Thanks,

PakBoy

[edit] Population

Karachi's population is well over 14 million. Any reasonable estimate that DOES NOT BIAS ITSELF WITH 98 CENSUS FIGURES, shows Karachi around the 14-16 million mark. I think we should use the Karachi City government's statistics .. they are the most accurate. In 1998 the population was WELL OVER 9.3 million ... the census did not take into consideration about a million afghan refugees (and other non-pakistanis) living in the city ... it assumed a unreasonably high response rate for Karachi. Whether this was done intentionally or not is a different issue ... but any reputed independent statistics will tell you that the 98 cencus figures are completely flawed. DO NOT USE THEM TO EXTRAPOLATE.


The article lists the population as 11,969,284, which is off by a few million. Various estimates range from 14-16.5 million. The City Govt. of Karachi estimates the population at over 14 million. Figures listed in magazines on international repute - Time, Newsweek and the Economist are also well over 14 million. Th. Brinkhoff: The Principal Agglomerations of the World lists the population at 14.3 million. KO

About 12 million is the most frequently cited number for Karachi's population. Given the 1998 census figure of 9.3M, it is hard to see how the population could have reached 15M today. Could the 14.3M vs. 12M be a case of "city population" versus "metropolitan population"? --Aqeel

Simple mathematics. The population of Karachi is increasing faster than the rest of the country due to a number of factors. I've made two tables below, one with the growth rates based on a population of 9.3 million in 98, and the other at 9.8 million. [1]
Population increase v.s growth rates
2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5
1998 9.30 9.30 9.30 9.30 9.30 9.30 9.30
1999 9.49 9.53 9.58 9.63 9.67 9.72 9.77
2000 9.68 9.77 9.87 9.96 10.06 10.16 10.25
2001 9.87 10.02 10.16 10.31 10.46 10.61 10.77
2002 10.07 10.27 10.47 10.67 10.88 11.09 11.30
2003 10.27 10.52 10.78 11.05 11.31 11.59 11.87
2004 10.47 10.79 11.10 11.43 11.77 12.11 12.46
2005 10.68 11.05 11.44 11.83 12.24 12.66 13.09
2006 10.90 11.33 11.78 12.25 12.73 13.23 13.74
2007 11.11 11.61 12.13 12.67 13.24 13.82 14.43

The second table is more accurate, as the 1998 census put Karachi's population at 9.8, with a average growth rate of 5%:

Population increase v.s growth rates
3.5 4 4.5 5
1998 9.80 9.80 9.80 9.80
1999 10.14 10.19 10.24 10.29
2000 10.50 10.60 10.70 10.80
2001 10.87 11.02 11.18 11.34
2002 11.25 11.46 11.69 11.91
2003 11.64 11.92 12.21 12.51
2004 12.05 12.40 12.76 13.13
2005 12.47 12.90 13.34 13.79
2006 12.90 13.41 13.94 14.48
2007 13.36 13.95 14.56 15.20

[edit] Delisted Article from Good Articles list

This article does not belong on the GA list. Some problems:

  1. Deviates from Wikipedia's policy of NPOV.
  2. Factual Errors
  3. Unnecessary facts

Karachi City and Karachi towns (Division) are distinct entities logically. If these articles will be merged together it ll be quite difficult for reader to separe information about each article. Thereore, no need to merge these articles.

The article's too long as well. It could benefit from some serious editing. Mohsin.Siddiqui 09:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text

I have removed some unnecessary information from the problem's section. I find this sentence not important while looking in context of the other problems the city is facing such as power outages and water shortages. Thank you. Advil 07:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] added some good info

hey guys i added some info about the tree clearing and its restoration i hope thats a good one and doesnt get rejected. personal opinion: finally they consider nature. lol Birdeditor 01:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I have some questions?

Some weeks ago I added some info on the uprooting of trees in Karachi and the Greener Karachi campaign in the Problems section. Why was it removed? And by the way I wonder why no one has focused on the topic of pollution in the Problems section. I am adding some more info right now please don't remove it unless you have a reason (and don't forget to post it up here) Thanks. Birdeditor 16:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Once again do not remove info without informing!

I see that user User:DiegoTehMexican has removed some of my information without posting it up here or in my user talk. Hope that doesn't repeat, thanks people for your cooperation. 208.65.242.85 23:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Information sources

here i am listing the sources i got my information from.

for the info on air pollution and air quality i got it from www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/pakenv.html

i got the info on the tree-planting campaign from the local Dawn newspaper (i m sure it can be reached on the internet on www.dawn.com, but currently it is hard to find it in the jumble of articles)

thanks for reminding me User:Siddiqui and User:DiegoTehMexican i will post my info sources from now on. Birdeditor 00:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of the First Person

"Here I would like to introduce" is not formal or encyclopedic in tone. The first-person should be avoided in all formal writings, the facts are what count, rather than the agenda of the author. Since there appears to be some commotion regarding unannounced edits, I'll allow the author time to respond. Tractorkingsfan 11:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not going to wait, the paragraph about the website is not encyclopedic at all and deserves immediate removal. The section "problems" flows much better without it. It is mentioned as an external link, and that is the only place it belongs. Tractorkingsfan 11:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foreigners have a right to know what happens at Karachi airport

Why people don’t want foreigners to know how stupid immigration/passport control at Karachi airport is. I would have taken photos if I was allowed to use my camera. They are lazy, rude and obnoxious Also Pakistani passengers maybe don’t know how to read the symbols/signs properly, and perhaps they are not aware of the words like “queues” and “lines”. Not everybody is the same but majority is like this.

Your opinion about customs officers at the Airport is original research which is not valid unless you can provide a reliable source.The article isn't here to mention really what happens where.Just there to give information about the subject and not the happenings.Nadirali نادرالی

[edit] More Information about Karachi City

First off, I don't speak Urdu, so I may be completely off the mark here after a bit of hasty googling, but why is chey (which I found to be "six") after every name on the list of notable people in Karachi? And as a corollary: why do we care about these people? It seems, to me, to be a thoroughly extraneous list.Shigernafy 06:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation requested: Jinnah -> Quaid

"...sometimes known as ... the City of Quaid ..., after Muhammad Ali Jinnah the founder of Pakistan."

I don't get how "Muhammad Ali Jinnah" leads to "Quaid". Can someone please elucidate? Thanks.

Nat 09:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] russian beach?

There is no such beach in Karachi nicknamed "russian beach".Add to that there are no russians in Pakistan except for diplomats.Nadirali نادرالی

There is Frenceh Beach Khalidkhoso 22:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

You're right about the nick named the "French beach".I'm not disputing that.the "russian beach" is the part which is unheard of,if it even exists.--Nadirali نادرالی

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