Talk:Kali Yuga

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User:203.199.120.7 cannot be trusted. I have rolled back all their work because I think its a software translation from a copyrighted source. Please do not revert back. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:25, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Concept of "reboot" of the yugas, in the 2nd paragraph.

This concept of "rebooting" of the yugas is mischevious at best. What is the source for this concept? In the book "Science of Religion" by Yogiraj Yuketeshwar Giri, Guru of Paramhansa Yogananda, the yugas are describes as cyclic, very much in conformance with natural phenomena. The yugas precess within the maha-yugas and the cyclic periods and twilight zones are much more reasonable in human history times. He provides some indication that the cyclic precession of the yugas has been set in motion at creation and the evolution or "devolution" of the human mind is thus aided or degraded. This concept is better suited to the central theories of Karma and reincarnation. The wishful reboot is as hollow as being cleansed of all karmic infliction at the point of confession.

[edit] Homophobic, Patriarchal, and Revisionist

This article is homophobic in the extreme... very POV. Also, there is a great deal of patriarchal POV here, such as "women not being shy" as a bad thing. Some parts are going to need extensive revising. In addition, the entire thing reads as though all these things were prophesied at the beginning of the age, which is utter nonsense. It's all revisionism, taking the current state of things, viewed through a negative lens, and then claiming "oh see this is what happens in the Kali Yuga." 128.213.49.23 18:41, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

User:128.213.49.23, I am not sure whether you are a Hindu or not but this is "according to The Hindu scriptures." Maybe I should put the words "according the the Srimad Bhagavatam and Vedas more. The truth nothing is biased because this is what the HINDUS (at least devout) believe. It may not be true, it may be pessimistic, sexist etc. but this is what we believe. If you books discussing the Kali Yuga, it will be very similar. DaGizza Chat (c) 09:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

In addition, this was all predicted/prophesised (not predicted but known and told) by Lord Krishna. As evidence read the Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and the Vedas. You also have to understand that The Yuga cycle is ongoing. See Metrics of time in Hinduism. There have many Kai Yugas in the past as well as more coming in the future. Also take in account that currently 5000 years of Kali Yuga have passed and the first 10000 years are known as the "twilight years." After 10000 years have gone these problems will have reached the peak.

These are some links on what The Hindus believe the Kali Yuga is. It is Hindu concept, and it may not be true, but it is what we believe; remember that.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

DaGizza Chat (c) 10:05, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The homophobia has been satisfactorily handled by Adudney. The misogyny is still present in the "Changes in woman" section. Regardless of DaGizza's personal beliefs, which are not at all representative of Hinduism as a whole, this section is POV and must be marked as such. By the way, DaGizza, citing the Bhagavad Gita does you no good, because it was written after 1000 BCE, yet you claim the Kali Yuga began 2000 years before that. This just strengthens the earlier argument that the so-called prophesies were nothing more than "revisionism, taking the current state of things, viewed through a negative lens, and then claiming 'oh see this is what happens in the Kali Yuga.'" Just because you sanction your bigotry through your religion (thus redirecting shame from yourself onto your religion) doesn't mean your bigotry isn't POV. 24.22.104.31
The Bhagavad Gita was recited by Krishna before kali yuga began. it was not written in or after 1000 BCE. suren
I understand part of what you are trying to say and I will accept it. However there are few things I believe we need to discuss. Why are you only saying the "woman" and "sexuality" sections are POV, how are they worse than the other sections? Secondly, for both of these sections (and maybe others) I think we should still write these "POV" comments along with neutral writings, but write a source for these. We can write according to the Bhagavad Gita though, it is interpreted differently ..., (or any other Hindu Text for that matter) then write what is written in the book.
We can write what Hindus have believed of Kali Yuga in all of recent history. The meaning of Kali Yuga obviously changed when Buddhism flourished, when the Mughals arrived and when the British arrived. If we want to make this a good article then every aspect of Kali Yuga has to be discussed in every context. There are of course optimists and pessimists. On to antoher question: are you the same person as 128.213.49.23? And are actually Hindu, so you know where I am coming from? Just curious.
Hopefully we can work this out! Thanks! DaGizza Chat (c) 08:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

It is extremely disturbing to find people with minimal knowledge and insight writing about real people and real cultures as if they founded it. The views expressed about the "Shudras" and about how they are congenitally inferior to the other castes is totally derogatory. The most chauvinistic part of course is where the so called expert writes about a time in the 'Kali Yuga" when the Dirty Shudras will discriminate against the "Noble Brahmins". Is this person even aware that the Shudras are real people and they live in this world right now and have no plans of global domination? So please ,for decency's, sake abstain from writing things like this in a public forum.

[edit] Am I missing something?

I was going to quote some of the POV stuff, but this entire thing is POV. This definitly need to be changed.

[edit] Let's clean up this article

Encouraged by Deeptrivia's addition of an NPOV tag to one section of the Kali Yuga article, I would like some help with a significant edit of this article. Especially someone who has knowledge of the Vedas, and can cite specific statements in the article. I'm taking the talk page approach because this has been a contentious page, and I'm proposing some significant changes. Would anyone like to work with me on this? Some suggestions for each section:

  • Intro: 'according to most interpretations of Hindu scriptures' implies that there is not unanimity on the subject. Specific references to scripture would help there, and references to specific interpretations of those scriptures would also help. And, a specific reference for the 'reboot' claim would help.
  • Problems that arise section: misleading title, sounds like a criticism section. Should be 'Attributes of Kali Yuga' or some such. Not a single statement in this section has a single source mentioned. For such specific statements, there should be specific references.
  • Changes in the people section: title should be something like 'Changes in the people in Kali Yuga'. Again, not a single reference to where these very specific statements come from.
  • Lives of each of the castes section: I propose removing this section. First of all, the 'caste' system, as it refers to Brahmin, Kshatriya, etc.,. has been moved to the Varnas page, since 'caste' does not neccessarily refer to Brahmin, Kshatriya, etc. Second, that system has had enough doubt raised about it, both scripturally (see Varnas article) and morally, that it has no relevance in an article about Kali Yuga
  • Exception section: remove and replace with a link in the 'External links' section to an ISKON site.
  • Other views of Kali Yuga section: additional interpretations would be helpful. I removed the qualifying statement at the end of the section "But these above views originated only during past fewdecades. They are not known widely and are not authorised in Hinduism due to lack of substance and authority as compared to Veda sastras" because it is POV and also incorrect. There is no reference to the 'authorizing' leader of Hinduism; these other views are interpretations of scripture, which have a long tradition in Hinduism; one of the views originated over a century ago, not a 'fewdecades.'

I'll wait for feedback and discussion before I make any changes. Absence of feedback after one week will be taken as a lack of objection. I'm mentioning this on the WikiProject Hinduism talk page also. Cheers. ॐ Priyanath 00:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup and Edits

Per my previous comments, I've:

  • Tidied up the intro, removing redundancy, and rearranging the order so that the definition of Kali Yuga precedes the 'we are now in Kali Yuga', thus general--->specific.
  • Changed and reorganized section headings
  • Removed 'Castes' section per my comments above
  • Removed 'Exceptions' section as POV
  • Added intro and references to 'Other Views' section
  • Added 'Notes' section heading
  • Still Needs:
    • Citations for source of all the 'Attributes of Kali Yuga'. If no specific references are available, I suggest changing title of section to 'Attributes of Kali Yuga according to Hindu tradition'. Rather weak, but better than nothing?
    • A section on 'Evidence that earth is currently in Kali Yuga', with references, from scripture? The 'Attributes of Kali Yuga' section looks like it was originally written to prove that we are in Kali Yuga, but the only objective criteria given there seem to show that we are Not in Kali Yuga ('Throughout the age, humans become shorter in height and weaker physically as well as mentally'). Most of the criteria are subjective, such as 'The actions of men and savage beasts are alike', and 'Women in this era shall be immoral and licentious by nature because they are neglected and left unprotected by the men.' Statements like that should also be referenced, since they seem rather quaint. Or they should be removed.

Comments and discussion are appreciated. Any help with references to scripture especially would be helpful. Regards ॐ Priyanath 04:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup and Edits

I've just expanded the Kali yuga, there isn't total information available, I will add in citations at a later date, though i had to write in a revisionist fashion because I'm not a brillant writer

[edit] "lit. Age of Kali"

Unless ime very much in error, ~Kalii Yugaa~ is Darkness Age not "Age of Kali". The confusion is from imprecise transcription, k_a_l_i being uzed for both words. The goddess is Kaalii (long a, long i; meaning ~The Dark One~), the demon is Kaali (long a, short i), and  :darkness is Kalii (short a, long i). If any-one has better information, ime keen to see it.
_ Froggo Zijgeb on 18`7`2006.

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