Talk:Kętrzyn

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It is interesting that an attempt was made here to assert that Rastenburg was called Rastembork in Polish. Rastenburg was one of the oldest castles of the Teutonic Knights, and was called Rastenburg from its founding in the 14th century until the annexations and wholesale population changes of 1945-49. Had Rastembork – which appears to be a simple transliteration of Rastenburg into Polish – been a generally used name, presumably there would have been no reason for the postwar Communist Polish government to change the name to Ketrzyn.

User:sca 27sep04

Never heard about changing well established placenames for political reasons ? See Stalingrad, Leningrad, Stalinogrod, Nizhny Novgorod/Gorky to name just a few exmples.

Second thing: Slavic languages for centuries used they own forms of names of many German cities - sometimes (as in case of Rastembork or Olsztyn) being renderings of German original, but often based on Slavic or Latin original, on which German form is also based (for example Dresno, Lipsk, Monachium, Ratyzbona, Chociebuż in Polish or Mnichov, Lipsko, Drážďany in Czech or finally Beč in Serbian/Croatian).

See List of European cities with alternative names for wider context.

For info on Polish-speaking inhabitants of East Prussia, which are responsible for "Rastembork", "Olsztyn", "Lidzbark" etc. see Mazur, Masuria and Warmiak.

And maybe opinions on "attempts to assert" should be based rather on actual linguistic knowledge then on Kantian Idealism?

Of course one is familair with name changes for political reasons. The issue is making clear that the name formerly was different, and was changed as a result of war that was followed by ethnic and territorial changes implemented by force.

However, I have a better understanding now for the Polish use of Rastembork for Rastenburg, and have edited the entry to say "was rendered in Polish as."

I am wondering whether Poles actually find German names such as Rastenburg difficult to pronounce. It seems unlikely, based on my slight acquaintance with Polish and its thicket of consonants, but I don't know.

Sca 20:15, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)