Talk:July 20

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This article is part of WikiProject Days of the Year, a Wikiproject dedicated to improving and maintaining the style guide for date pages.

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July 20: Independence Day in Colombia (1810); Friends' Day in Argentina and other Latin American countries.

Buzz Aldrin on the moon, with Neil Armstrong reflected in his helmet

Recent days: July 19 – July 18 – July 17

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Contents

[edit] Copyedit

I put this page on needing copyediting because I've been staring at it so long it needs fresh sets of eyes to look it over. PedanticallySpeaking 15:26, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

Good God - 62KB? This article is now too long to be useful to most people. The purpose of the day pages has never been to document everything that happened on that day, but to include the most notable events. Each section in this article badly needs to be summarized/abridged and the current detail moved to Events of July 20, Births on July 20, and Deaths on July 20 (the last two would be a bit redundant with category:July 20 births and category:July 20 deaths, but oh well). --mav
I got it down to below 32K, but it still needs work. Kingturtle 03:24, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Subpages

I today created subpages to the article, two for events, one each for births and deaths. I also restored the references section to the main page and placed it on each of the subpages. None of them produce a message about the length of the article.

The statement was made that the page is "too long" and not useful. I compiled this so that for every year for the past eighty years has at least one event. Everyone is curious as to what happened on the day they were born and this enables them to find out at least one thing. PedanticallySpeaking 18:07, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with edit

When this page was cut down by others it deleted important information, such as what country Michael I became king of or what government Kerensky headed. Wholesale deletionism has eliminated context. And for what purpose? PedanticallySpeaking 16:25, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Blanking

I restored this to 14:52, 22 November 2005 by MisfitToys. A large edit like 131.107.0.73 needs to have some discussion, or at least edit summaries.--Bookandcoffee(Leave msg.) 18:39, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

You've got it backwards: it looks like 131.107.0.73 was cutting back on the extreme bloat added by User:PedanticallySpeaking. Looks like he should have tackled the excess images and overcategorization User:PedanticallySpeaking added, too, though. --Calton | Talk 00:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The images gave life to the page. I was always taught one needed to break up large quantities of text. Second, the purpose of having lots of events was to help those interested in what happened on the day they were born. There was an event for every day of the last eighty years or better. I worked very hard on this and I'm hurt that my work is summarily dismissed as "extreme bloat". PedanticallySpeaking 15:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

You added 29 images -- most of them pointlessly decorative -- to the page. And you needed to break up large quantities of text because you added a ludicrous amount of it to the page.
Second, the purpose of having lots of events was to help those interested in what happened on the day they were born. That's your idea and no one else's, not to mention that you seemed to be assuming that this hypothetical someone is keenly interested in minor US congressional actions, US political minutiae, American labor milestones, random military manuveurs (not even battles), and not much else. Your additions were not only American-centered, they were of a particularly thin slice of American interests.
I worked very hard on this and I'm hurt that my work is summarily dismissed as "extreme bloat". You not only didn't bother to get any input before embarking on this, but you violated several established precepts while doing so (images, subheadings, birth/deaths of those who have articles, etc.), so I have little sympathy for whinging about the hard work you shouldn't have done in the first place. You're hurt? You'll get over it.
And what is it about July 20? You once piled up the non-notable births on this page, as I recall, and split them off into subpages before they were deleted and lists trimmed. Is this your birthday or something? --Calton | Talk 16:14, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
The deletions made by another in the past were also done without any discussion and when I attempted to produce a compromise I was shot down then. I'm interested in this day because it's the day of the first moon landing. Maybe you don't mean to, but I get this really hostile tone from your reply. I hope it is not intentional because it is the sort of vibe which causes contributors to walk away from our project. PedanticallySpeaking 16:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
The deletions made by another in the past were also done without any discussion. You mean the ADDITIONS were done without any discussion, don't you?
...and when I attempted to produce a compromise I was shot down then That should have been your first clue.
I get this really hostile tone from your reply I don't respond well to manipulative self-pity, perhaps. I do respond to actual arguments and actual responses: the only one I've gotten is that you're interested in Apollo 11.
I'm certainly annoyed at all the work I had to do to clean up your "improvements" (another sin I neglected to mention: the subject titles, like "[[Far East]]:" and "[[Massachusetts]]:"-), because, instead of simply reverting you I sifted through it all, just to be fair.
The only good thing to come out of it is the New York Times page link, which I'm going to add to other date pages.

-Calton | Talk 00:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Your reply shows further debate would not be productive. For those who are interested in seeing the page before the deletions discussed above, I am posting it at User:PedanticallySpeaking/July 20. PedanticallySpeaking 16:52, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

For the record I mostly agree with Calton re keeping this article from being bloated. However, I do think that adding some images here and there for the most important events and people would make the article easier to read. --mav 20:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 38k

this article is up to 38k. we should really work to parse it down again. are we going to allow any event to be allowed? certainly this would cause problems. there should be some standards or guidelines. In Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Days of the year i have brought up this issue before. that discussion didn't go far. but i'd like to reintroduce the discussion.

a list of criteria might include: Firsts, lasts, battles, precedents, truces, assassinations (and attempts), royal weddings, head of state resignations, verdicts?, passages of substantial legislation, terrorist events, milestones?, space exploration, UN Security Council decisions, major natural disasters, creation of new nations, unique scientific events (comets hitting Jupiter). and what else? Kingturtle 21:23, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Benjamin Decoux

Benjamin Decoux (Nov. 8 1980-present) is a renowned gamer, movie/music critic and director. He is most famous for his production "Neumann’s Payday" which he not only wrote and directed but also stared in as the lead role. The short play received mixed reviews from the critics but was a big hit among patrons. (added by anonymous editor)

Odd, his name doesn't appear on Google. Let's at least wait until he creates his own web page. Rklawton 05:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unimportant

there is way too much minor info listed for this day. WillC 19:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

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