Talk:Journey (band)

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[edit] Validation

Validation of article performed by WIKICHECK. February 8, 2006 5:43pm. WikiCheck 22:43, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] almost nothing

This article says almost nothing about the band; it's basically three lists. Can anyone expand this? I'm certainly no Journey expert. Also, is the list of singles necessary? Most band pages just list their albums, and mention a few singles in the text of the article (of which this page is certainly lacking). -R. fiend 08:04, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It is noteworthy that some of their songs were used in Tron - 200.195.86.168

[edit] Journey_(band)#Discography

I don't think that the discography section, Journey_(band)#Discography, should list when someone "first appeared" and "last appeared". But, if it should, why only the two Steve's, Perry and Augeri? Rolie and Cain (besides the main man Schon) have also been very important pieces in the evolution of Journey (no album pun intended). Rolie (along with Schon) was instrumental (no music pun intended) in the band getting to a point where Perry and Cain where even invited to join the band. Cain's "sweet as sugar" lyrics (agriculture pun toward sugar cane "is" intended) are one of the main reasons the band was as commercially successful as it was. Cain, Schon, and Rolie are continually ignored for their contributions to the Journey (intended). Now I am not taking anything away from Perry, I love Steve, and he was a BIG cog in the wheel (in the sky) for the band to keep on turning, but these other guys need some "lovin'" too, okay they'll get no "touchin'" and "squeezin'" from me. But, Cain, Rolie, and Schon, and to a lesser degree even Valory, Smith & even Fleischman, did their integrul parts. Let me know if this issue will cause us to go our "separate ways", or is anyone else "feeling that way", "feeling that way, too?" Comments? WikiDon 22:38, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Photo

THIS IS NOT "The Original Journey Lineup" It took Steve Perry FOUR years to get there. Can anyone tell when this photo was taken, I would guess Dec. of 1978, need HELP! When did Neal get rid of the HUGH FRO?

If I'm not mistaken that photo is from the "Separate Ways" video. I hope that helps. -R. fiend 22:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The history was there

There actually was a full history of Journey in Wikipedia, it just wasn't in this article ... rather, it was spread out among the different album articles and the different member articles. Hence I've been pulling them into and integrating them with this article. I've done it through 1987 and Perry leaving, which is where I get off. Someone else can finish the job -- look in the Steve Perry and Arrival articles in particular for material.

I've now done this merging in. Wasted Time R 03:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

This article also had a good deal of extraneous material about the history of Santana and so forth. It's all been moved to the appropriate other articles. Wasted Time R 01:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RE: "Extraneous Material"

RE: "Extraneous Material" and Wasted Time R, you removed what I had written about the beginnings of the band, saying: "This article also had a good deal of extraneous material". But this tells how the band came about, if it was not for Rolie, Schon, and Herbie Herbert coming together in Santana there would be NO Journey. Then you turn around and put in stuff about "American Idol" "Clay Aiken" and "Kelly Clarkson". Now the former leads directly to the formation of the band, the latter has nothing to do with "THE BAND", talk about "extraneous material". Which is more important? The formation of the band is a LARGE chunk of its history. Randy Jackson was just hired to play one tour, and that was it. The history of the band should NOT revolve around hired guns just to get through a tour. It should revolve around memebers of the band that were critical to its life, Rolie, Schon, Herbert, Cain, Tickner, Valory, Prince, Dunbar, Fleischman, Smith, and of course Perry. There were three major incarnations to the band becoming the group we know today, the first was the initial formation, then the addition of Dunbar and Fleischman, and lastly the addition of Perry and Cain that propelled them to the peak of their success. For the most part everyone else after that were just hired guns to get through either studio sessions or tours (except for Augeri, who was a permentant replacement for Perry, but Cain and Schon run the show). Herbert formed the band for SCHON, it was Schon's band from the beginning, and Journey is Schon and Cain's band today. If it were not for Schon, there would in all likelihood be no Perry, and no Journey. Perry had tried for 10-years to break through in L.A., he had given up and headed back home, and if not for the demo tape that he left behind, that would come across Herbert's desk and ears, he even says he would probably have become a lounge singer in Stockton, Fresno and Sacramento. Without the addition of Perry and Cain (who doesn't get the credit he deservers!) the band would most likely not have become a meteor that it became. These are the main parts that paved the way for all others to hitch their ride to this entity. Life-long, die-hard Journey (like me) respect the beginnings of the band, and the essential pieces that came five (or so) years later to take them to the next level. Rolie was a major cornerstone piece to get the band started. And if not for Herbert, who knows what direction Schon would have went. Jackson is a very good bassist, no doubt about it, but in the history of entire life of band, they could have just as easily hired someone else for that tour. So, when it comes to "extraneous material", where the band came from, how it got together, and how it added Perry and Cain are what really count. If not for Schon, Herbert, Rolie, Perry and Cain, there would not have been all that CASH to do anything else. WikiDon 18:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't think I removed anything you wrote, I just moved some of it to Santana's history, and other asides (like "We Built This City") to the appropriate article. I've added an explicit "see Santana history" line in the front of the Beginnings section now. Wasted Time R 18:59, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

• • I knew that the "We Built This City" was a long stretch when I wrote it, I just did it for an FYI, a little added trivia for music history fans. But if it goes, then surely American Idol stuff should be jettisoned? WikiDon 19:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

A little trivia is ok, it just belonged in Jefferson Airplane, not here.

The rest of your criticisms are unnecessary. Feel free to add more about the pre-Perry band, I have little familiarity with those records. Feel free to add more about Cain ... before I made my additions, there was nothing about him at all! I added that his songwriting and keyboards were a key part of their sound c. 1983 and that he wrote "Faithfully", one of their best-known tunes. If you want to elaborate on how Herbert found Perry, go ahead, I think I didn't touch your material on that.

Finally, re the Randy Jackson/AI material, this is interesting because to a whole younger generation, it's the hook by which they'll be interested in Journey. I agree that Jackson's role was of little significance at the time, but it is now, because people are singing Journey songs on the top-rated American TV show because of him, and they show film clips of Journey's 1986 tour because of him, and so forth. It's not a zero-sum game; you can add as much as you want to other eras of Journey without having to limit mentions of Jackson and AI. Wasted Time R 19:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

As a reality check, look at the article before I touched it: [1] A lot on the history of Santana and the formation of Journey, then next to nothing for 15 years, then some scattered material on the post-Perry years! Wasted Time R 19:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I had intended to write a complete history, at least until 1990, but I was going to do it in stages. I just had not got around to it, other fish to fry you know. My next segment was going to be the first three albums, then the Perry-Cain era. I just had to push it down the priority list. WikiDon 19:27, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, that's fine, you're not pre-empted. You can still do your writing, modifying/expanding/replacing what I pulled together as you see fit. If you yank something that I think is important, I'll try to fit it back in into the context of what you did. In other words, the normal WP process. Wasted Time R 19:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

!!Hey there just to clear up something, "We built this City" was actually by Starship, not Jefferson Aeroplane as someone has stated above. I know it's the same band but we wouldn't want any 8th graders failing their research assignments now would we?

[edit] mention of lipsync is valid and should remain

Reword it if you feel I haven't written it properly, but it is not right to remove this entirely. This is a significant event in the bands' history, and deserves to be mentioned here.

There were numerous evidentiary posts on the various Journey fan forums during 2006 which brought this situation to light. After thousands of posts and very heated discussion, the band admitted to using prerecorded vocal tracks to "augment the live performance" but the superimposed recordings proved otherwise. This is not an opinion or a smear from the Perry vs. Augieri battle, but rather a factual series of events that took place and significant enough to warrant inclusion here.

Needs a valid reference. See WP:CITE and WP:V for guidelines. If it was such a significant event it shouldn't be too hard to find. Blogs and chats can't be used as references though. A valid professional publication is needed for verifiability. 156.34.223.68 22:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)