Talk:Josquin des Prez

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Are we going to list/discuss his more famous/influential works at some stage - eg (Masses):- Missa Pange Lingua, Missa de Beata Virgine, the two l'homme arme settings... Linuxlad 23:25, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually I have major expansion of this article on my to-do list, but go ahead and start if you like! There's a huge amount of information that still needs to go in. I wrote a little about his Pange Lingua mass at the Pange Lingua page.Antandrus 00:13, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your pange lingua entry reads well, and I shall leave matters in your capable hands :-) (incidentally I've set up a redirect for l'homme arme to cantus firmus for the time being).

It would be nice to revise the bit about his fame having been overshadowed by Palestrina - (a very 19th century RC perspective?) Linuxlad 08:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, there's still some of that everything-before-Palestrina-wasn't-yet-perfect POV in the article from the original Catholic Encyclopedia (1908) entry. I think there's no question Josquin's fame has steadily risen since 1908, especially versus Palestrina (think of the parallel example of Telemann and Bach--the Telemann article used to be longer than the Bach article in turn of the century encyclopedias, and now the reverse is the case). Hey, it's really great to see someone else interested in Josquin! Antandrus 16:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, I tried to abolish most of that 1908 POV; I hope I got it right. There's still a lot more than can be written about this guy (more details on his pieces, for example). His position as one who brought together so many trends, but yet innovated, and could express emotion using such economical means, reminds me more of J.S. Bach than any other figure in music history. Antandrus 03:50, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nice addition.

'...between de Machaut & Palestrina'. Some might consider that Dufay runs him a close second, and was as influential?

Linuxlad 09:56, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, yes, now that you mention it. Considering that the Franco-Flemish style started with the Burgundians, and Dufay was the guiding force as well as the most polished composer there ... :-) Antandrus 15:54, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Name 2 Mille Regretz 3 His name, and article title 4 Picture

[edit] Name

The name of the article, and the name in the introduction, differs. Should the article be moved, or the name changed in the beginning? Ornilnas 18:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The article should probably be moved. There will be some double redirects to fix. (I'm a little amazed it stayed upper case as long as it did.) Antandrus (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

It hasn't been moved, but the introduction has been edited...Ornilnas 09:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mille Regretz

This is not listed in chanson, but the 4v version, if not the tune, is usually credited to Josquin. Nay-sayers please shout before I add. Linuxlad 15:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

There were earlier settings and later (eg Suzato). But Josquin's is the best! When you look at the music, it seems very sparse and simple but the effect is spine-tingling. Just my POV of course! Bluewave 15:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It's one of the most hauntingly beautiful tunes of the time, and one can see why so many other composers used it for mass settings and so forth. That's my POV of course ... do you have the Hilliard recording? Antandrus (talk) 21:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC) Yes! Bob aka Linuxlad 21:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] His name, and article title

In case anyone is watching this: I'm having some trouble finding other sources that have his name exactly as Josquin Des Prez. Josquin Desprez and Josquin des Prez seem to be the most common (the 2001 Grove has the latter; the 1980 Grove the former). Books recently published (for example, Patrick Macey's Bonfire Songs, Savonarola's Musical Legacy) almost all use the lower case des Prez. Any objection, or preference, to my moving this to one or the other, and fixing the redirects? Antandrus (talk) 16:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Probably a few of us Josquin enthusiasts watching! I'd vote for "Josquin des Prez" but don't feel strongly about it (as long as the variants all redirect). Bluewave 21:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

That was my thought as well when I first saw this page, but I was new back then :) Perhaps we should use his name as he may have signed it on the Papal chapel wall, "Josquinj" </tongue removed from cheek> I would prefer "des Prez", but it looks (from a google search) like in English Desprez is a bit more common, but in this case I think we should go with the more current scholarship rather than the mere tide of google hits. (of course, there is surely no "right" way, because those silly guys never spelled their names the same way twice) Mak (talk) 03:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey people... I have great recordings of Josquin's Missa Pange Lingua (both the Kyrie and the Gloria sections). If someone could tell me how to upload them I'd be happy to add them to the page if you'd like. Also, I was reading the name debate at the bottom of the page; I've seen it mostly spelled Desprez (this is from my college textbooks), but I think that any of the spellings you mentioned are considered acceptable... Scotsman24 06:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Where are the recordings from? Wikipedia can basically only use freely-licensed content. Desprez seems like a slightly older-fashioned (late-19th, early 20th century) spelling. Cheers, Mak (talk) 23:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

My recordings are from a compilation made by Bedford/St. Martin's to accompany a music textbook. I bet they are licensed to some record company... so we probably couldn't use them (at least not the whole recordings - I think a short section of each is acceptable, but I am still familiarizing myself with the rules for posting material). I am able to edit recordings for length if need be. Scotsman24 00:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

That picture is labelled as a woodcut, yet it appears to be an etching. Can anyone find a source for which medium it is?

Patrick Macey, from section 8 of the article in the online New Grove. "...the well-known woodcut of Josquin was almost certainly copied from a panel portrait in oil that once stood in the church of Ste Gudule, Brussels..." It is sourced in the article: Note 1 leads to "Macey, Grove, section 8." Antandrus (talk) 22:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)