Talk:Joshua Rifkin

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On Sep 18 2006, Rifkin wrote on AMS-L:

Briefly, the article states that a paper I was scheduled to present at the 1981 annual AMS meeting was "shouted down." (...) the statement as formulated is indeed not correct (...) I resist on principle, however, seeking changes to anything written publicly about me -- accurate or inaccurate, positive or negative. (...) anyone on this list is invited to correct the error as he or she sees fit.

[edit] AMS Boston, 1981

I was at that session in Boston in 1981 along with a number of my fellow musicology grad students from the U of Chicago, and with several of our profs, notably Bob Marshall (who was then on the Chicago faculty).

I have a fairly good memory of that session, and it does not include any shouting down. There was some vigorous but civil Q & A, involving counterpoint from Marshall. It was the last session of the afternoon, right before cocktail/dinner time (!) so the discussion was wound up by the moderator...lore had it that the Rifkin/Marshall debate was continued offsite at a nearby McDonalds, but that may have been an instant urban legend.

For what it's worth, here's the text of a review of Parrott's book that I posted on Amazon.com in November 2003:

The first time (or perhaps ALMOST the first time) that Rifkin gave an exposition of his 1-on-a-part idea was at the November 1981 annual meeting of the American Musicological Society in Boston. The paper was read towards the end of an afternoon session, and then formally rebutted by Bob Marshall (at the time a prof at the U. of Chicago, my alma mater for musicology). There was a lively give and take afterwards, but then the cocktail/dinner hour intervened and the audience dispersed. Rifkin and Marshall then repaired to a local McDonald's to continue their debate. My current-day colleagues in the world of commercial r.e. appraisal scoff at the possible interest such topics could raise, until I mention the fascination some of us find in published debates over business enterprise value at shopping malls...ho hum.

At that 1981 convention I talked to Rifkin about Edw. Lowinsky's ideas concerning the authenticity and dating of certain motets by Josquin (a debate thereon had arisen due to an article by Thos. Noblitt), and J.R. replied to the effect that such questions were secondary to the quality of the music itself. The same attitude, I believe, is applicable to the Bach choir issue.

The music is incredibly lovely when performed by expert singers, one on a part. Does it add anything to our experience to believe that this is the "authentic" means of performance? What about the fact that most people today experience this performance as sound waves emanating from a speaker, or that today's singers are probably healthier than their 18th c. counterparts, etc.?

I believe that the intellectual appreciation of "what is authentic" is a valid and interesting exercise in its own right...but that it should be quite separate from the sensuous appreciation of the music, however it is performed. It doesn't do the music any good to be heard with a sense of moral righteousness OR indignation.

-- Kevin Byrnes

PS: another memorable moment from AMS Boston 1981 was a more or less impromptu performance of the Schubert march op. 51 in D (for piano 4 hands) by Rifkin and Bob Winter.