User talk:JonathanCross
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[edit] Hesher
For a time we had an article on Hesher. It was recently deleted following a community debate. If you can produce an article which is well sourced and doesn't contain original research then it may be possible to have an article on this subject. But because it has already been deleted after an open debate, you'll need to get your sources together before you try to recreate the article, otherwise it will continue to be a legitimate target for speedy deletion. Good luck Gwernol 11:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A base?
Thanks for the response. I was enlisting the help of others more educated than myself, but without a document to edit, I don't see how they can contribute.
This article is linked to from many related articles. Though incomplete, I believe the article I wrote works well as a base to be "cleaned up" and corrected. It is much more substantial than the previous article which was discussed & deleted. Do you not agree?
Thanks,
-J
- Honestly I don't agree. The problem with the "its a start that others can work on" argument is the previous version of the Hesher article tried this and it didn't work. For 18 months the article sat there and wasn't sourced or improved. I don't see why starting it again in basically the same state will work this time. Unless we can start with a well sourced article, I don't see what recreating it will achieve. Gwernol 11:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Give it a chance?
>> I don't see why starting it again in basically the same state
If you look, it is not the same article at all. True, its not referenced, but it is researched (within wikipedia mostly) and links to many pertinent articles. It is clearly needed as part of the explanation of terms such as headbanging, the origins of Grunge, heavy metal music etc.
>> For 18 months the article sat there and wasn't sourced or improved
The last article had 18 months to get "cleaned up", the one I created was barely alive 18 minutes. Hardly giving it a chance.
Found at least 5 articles that link to this one, is mine really worse than nothing?
I won't continue to argue if you still feel it warrants deletion.
Thanks,
-Jonathan
A few quick references I located:
"heavy metal parking lot" - 1986
http://www.answers.com/topic/hesher
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A14838
- Thanks for replying. The article you wrote does need references: that's the single biggest problem facing Wikipedia right now: unsourced and unverifiable articles and information. The focus is turning from adding more articles to improving the quality of existing articles. So you'll see an emphasis on requiring reliable sources that can verify the content of articles. Just linking to other Wikipedia articles, while useful, does not provide verifiability.
- I don't know whether Hesher is a widely used term or not and what significance it plays in the evolution of heavy metcal, grunge etc. One of the important points about Wikipedia is we do not allow original research. This means that if an editor reaches the conclusion that Heshers are the "missing link" between heavy metal and grunge, we can't allow that conclusion in an article. If for example, Lester Bangs had writen an essay on how Heshers connected heavy metal to grunge, you could include that and use Bangs' article as the source.
- If you can find an article in a reliable source that talks about Heshers, then you'll be able to write a great article. Just putting up a dictionary definition and hoping someone else will do the work isn't going to cut it.
- I took a look at the links you provided. The answers.com link is about a rap-soul musician called Hesher, which doesn't seem to be at all relevant to the article you are trying to write. The newsreview.com article is better because it is a reliable source but it really does little except reference the UrbanDictionary which is not a reliable source, so it isn't enough on its own to build an entire article.
- I'd suggest you spend some time looking for reliable sources for the meaning of Hesher you are using and build the article around those. You can use a personal sandbox to work on the article until its ready to transfer into the article space. I can help you with the technicalities of this if you like.
- On your final question, its usual to reply on people's talk pages, but some editors prefer to keep conversations like this in one place. Its up to you really - I'll see replies on my talk page or on yours. You should also sign your comments on all tlak pages. Its really easy, just put ~~~~ (that's four tilde characters) at the end of the comment and its automatically expanded into your username and the date.
- Good luck, Gwernol 14:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sandbox?
Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunatly I will be in Myanmar for the next 6 weeks, so I'll be unable to research this article till after then. Still can you explain where my personal sandbox is? Is it just my user page?
Thanks,
JonathanCross 14:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- No problem. A personal sandbox is a sub-page of your userpage that you use as a "notepad" for, well, pretty much anything. A really good use is to prepare an article before moving it into "article space". So for Hesher you can create a page called User:JonathanCross/Hesher. If you click on that link you can create the page right there and start working on the article. It might be a good idea to create a link to the sandbox on your user page so you can easily get back to it.
- Because this page is in your "user space" its obvious to everyone that its a "work in progress" so the rules are more relaxed about what can go there. That way you can build up the article over time without worrying that an admin will delete it. Once its properly sourced, you can copy it to the real Hesher article.
- Good luck with your trip to Myanmar. I was in Thailand a couple of years ago, up near the Myanmar border. I wish I'd had time to go across to visit that country, it sounds fascinating. All the best, Gwernol 14:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Thanks
Well, hopefully I can re-submit after getting better references. Its difficult for this sort of thing. JonathanCross 10:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
