Talk:Joel Osteen

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• This page requires continuing protection from an associate/partisan of the subject. See also the neutrality dispute at the Lakewood Church entry, which reads like a press release. --Crid 20:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

• Changes are needed to the Joel Osteen and Lakewood pages. They do need to be complete and unbiased. However, people who are knowledgeable about the subject should not be blocked from contributing. Just because the body of information is not overly negative, does not automatically mean that it is inaccurate. Including things like links to a person's tax records in HCAD is inappropriate, regardless of who the subject is. It is perfectly acceptable to point out a reference to Osteen wealth in the criticism segment, but publishing links to any person's tax records in this form of publication is not. --Dparsons62 09:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• The reference to the current value of his home was removed from the "Criticism" section on the page because the majority of the current value of the home was gotten through appreciated value in the home since it was purchased approximately 10 years ago. Even HCAD records show that the value of the home has almost doubled since 2002. The house was purchased for substantially less than the 2002 appraised value listed in HCAD. Unfortunately HCAD does not post earlier data. Therefore, that critical point is not relevant, and verging on tabloid reporting. --Dparsons62 7 June 2006

Contents 1 Neutrality 2 Victoria Osteen merge 3 "Blinking disorder" or "nervous tic" -- Mr. Osteen's "Blinking Spasms" on TV 4 Interview Transcript 5 Barbara Walters with Joel Osteen 6 Largest? 7 "Criticism"?

[edit] Neutrality

This article is nothing more than a press release for Joel Osteen. He has been roundly criticized by Christians for a “health and wealth” style of preaching. I agree that the article should not be overly negative; however, it should not be overly positive either. Right now this sounds like it was written by a publicist. Derek Cormier 07:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, especially on the "interpretations" part; makes it sounds like what Osteen says, about God giving everyone prosperity is actually good for you. Xunflash 00:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fine the way it is. I'm not a member or follower of Joel Osteen or Lakewood church, but I think the negativity towards him from other outside denominations is silly. This article is fine in my opinion.

And for those who chop out the FACTS just because you can't handle the FACT that they are positive, shame on you. Editor

I think the article is fine on neutrality at present. The criticism section sufficiently deals with the other editor's concerns. - Anonymous Jake

The article is supposed to provide both sides of the argument about Joel Osteen's preaching. There is great controversy among some denominations regarding his teaching as a "prosperity gospel." In fact, information about his teaching as a prosperity gospel is not included in the article and probably should be. Kcoover 17:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC) Marissa Miller

[edit] Victoria Osteen merge

I'm not sure Victoria on her own would meet the criteria for notability; however, I do think that including data on her in her husband's page would make sense. Badbilltucker 14:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

(Note: I've moved this entry here from Talk:Victoria Osteen. -- Steven Fisher 20:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC))

I have to agree the merge is to consider since she didn't do much beside living a normal life like everybody else. Lincher 02:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Oppose: She may not be as famous as her husband, but she's notable enough to have something small. Mostly, I'd find attempting to visit an article on Victoria Osteen and ending up at Joel Osteen to violate the principle of least astonishment (which, as far as I know, is not a wikipedia guideline and yet makes sense nonetheless). -- Steven Fisher 02:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Support the Merge: There are enormous churches who do not have their own wiki items, much less their deaconesses. - Anonymous Jake

If category name is the only concern, let's go with "Joel and Victoria Osteen". No one will be surprised, and that has been done in the case of other couples where both have some role in the organization. There's really not enough for Victoria to have her own article, unless someone is _really_ going to flesh out her leadership of the women's study. Lisamh 03:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That'd be okay with me. -- Steven Fisher 01:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - They're not a noteworthy couple, like a famous duet band. - Anonymous Jake

I would oppose such a merge. Joel and Victoria Osteen are separate and distinct people, and the case for having separate pages will only grow stronger the more their respective pages evolve from being stubs to full-fledged, fleshed-out articles.Deatonjr 16:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Blinking disorder" or "nervous tic" -- Mr. Osteen's "Blinking Spasms" on TV

Pastor Osteen seems to have some sort of tic or 'disorder' that causes him to go in to "blinking spasms" during his televised sermons, and it seems to be getting worse. Perhaps it's extreme nervousness or something -- and though he seems like a really good guy and is actually quite inspiring (even for me, a Jew!), it's been proven that people blink much more when they're either (1) very nervous; (2) lying; (3) when they have something they'd like to hide; or (4) aren't telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth." Has any one else noticed this man's wild blinking spasms while watching him on TV? What could be the cause of these spasms, or nervous tics? Has he always done this? --152.163.100.199 06:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Haven't really noticed, but that may be because my brother has had an eye tick all of his life. To be honest, speculating on the cause seems both rather pointless and also not appropriate for inclusion in the article. -- Steven Fisher 19:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Chronic dry-eye can cause that too or if theres a draft from the A/C unit.

-- the inference to Pastor Osteen's character is potentially libelous and has been removed.

An inference drawn from true facts is a protected opinion and is not libelous, unless the inference is itself a fact. You could infer that he's nervous - that would be an opinion. Inferring that he is lying is a matter of fact and can be libel. - Anonymous Jake

The correct reference is "Pastor Osteen". Well, you would blink too if you had spotlights shining in your face for an hour and had to talk in front of a stadium full of people, with the AC going full blast. Watch all the live services on the internet (www.lakewood.cc), Saturday night and Sunday morning, since you seem to want to examine his face in detail. Please note that the only service recorded for TV is the second (11:00 a.m.) Sunday service. He has to be on a tight schedule and is watching the clock constantly. Of course he's nervous. He is doing this out of duty and never wanted to preach in the first place.

-- This sounds like a plausible explaination. There IS a lot of pressure for the Sunday morning recorded service. At the Saturday evening service pastor Osteen dresses and appears more relaxed, and it is reflected in the service.

[edit] Interview Transcript

I don't see the use of a televised interview transcript in a Encyclopedia article.

In my opinion, too many religious articles in Wikipedia are nothing more than advertisements for fundamentalist and other conservative Christian organizations and people. The articles seldom refer to serious theologians or biblical scholars such as Gordon Kaufman or Paula M. Cooey.I agree that "the article" on Joel Osteen is nothing more than a promotion piece for a television evangelist and mega-church pastor. I am not competent to write the articles necessary to improve these articles. Ted Michael Morgan 07:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)Ted Michael Morgan,Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Gordon Kaufman or Paula M. Cooey are not qualified to judge pastors, either scripturally or simply in terms of being notable enough that their opinions matter. --Steven Fisher 19:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

-- Don't forget that Lakewood Church is indeed a functioning, thriving church in the city of Houston. Joel Osteen is, if nothing else, the pastor of this church and the author of a several best-selling books. The Larry King interview seems particularly relevant to some of the controversy surrounding Mr. Osteen. The quotes seem to illustrate this well. Deatonjr 16:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barbara Walters with Joel Osteen

I am looking for information on the content of this interview on 12-12-06, The top 10 people in 2006. I would like to see it actually. Is there somewhere on line that I can view it ? 216.76.215.39 05:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)Denise

What about the incident on Continental Airlines when Victoria Osteen was removed from the plane for a "disturbance" in 2005? What happened exactly, and is it worthy of inclusion?

[edit] Largest?

The reference for the "Largest and fastest growing" campaign points to a list of websites, not a list of churches. As such, I've replaced this reference with a {{fact}} tag. The websites article references a list of churches ranked on their size and growth in Outreach magazine, but I don't subscribe to that magazine and don't see the article on the Outreach magazine website. Is that article a better reference for the claim? -- Mikeblas 16:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Criticism"?

Someone wanna tell me how what is stated in this section are "criticisms"? How could they be "criticisms" if some people support them. How about "Interesting/Controversial Information" (not like that belongs in an encyclopedia either)? I think every user needs to look up the definition of "criticism." Wikipedia at its best. 67.186.151.231 23:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)