Talk:Joe Šakić

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Joe Šakić was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake. Date of review: 2007-03-17

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Contents 1 "Šakić?" 2 inconsistency of birthplace 3 Croatia or Yugoslavia 4 GA Review

[edit] "Šakić?"

I don't see the justification for spelling his last name that way. It's not reflective of the overwhelmingly common spelling or pronunciation in his native Canada or just about anywhere else. Aottley 06:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but given Joe's Croatian lineage, I think the Hrvatska spelling of his surname should remain in the article, along with an IPA rendering of it. My limited understanding of Slavic languages seems to say that his surname is actually pronounced Shak - EEtch (the way North Americans pronounce it, Sack - ick, can't possibly be correct), but since I don't know the IPA well enough to transliterate it, I'll just ask that someone else do it, please. Avalyn 03:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That spelling shouldn't be in the lead section, because it's doubtful that his Canadian documents have it that way. I had put it in the early life section because that's the most likely spelling of the surname of his parents, whose original documents could have had it that way.

As far as the surname itself - the 'ic' at the end is definitely 'ić', the Slavonic patronymic. The S at the beginning could be a S or a Š, but the latter is more likely because the Croatian phone directory (imenik.ht.hr) gives 62 results for Sakić and 489 for Šakić. The ratio is 3:119 for the county where Imotski is. --Joy [shallot] 02:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] inconsistency of birthplace

isn't there some way to make this conflicting information more coherent? between the lines of text and the tet in the info boxes, this could be much more consistent. is there a source for his birthplace? -- Denstat 05:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The NHL lists him as being from Burnaby, but other sources, such as Here, say Vancouver. However, Burnaby is part of the Greater Vancouver Regional District, and for all intents and purposes, would be considered Vancouver to most outsiders. Its a lot like saying your from Toronto, but really from York. Kaiser matias 23:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I also just read the Encyclopedia of British Columbia, which states Burnaby. So until it can be proven otherwise with something as official, I'm going to delete the Vancouver reference. Kaiser matias 20:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Croatia or Yugoslavia

Over the last few days, numberous users have been chaning Sakic's ancestery from Croatia to Yugoslavia and back. All this time, there has never been a source for any of these edits. Well, I did a simple Google search for "Joe Sakic Croatia," and came up with several sources stating his parents came from Croatia. Yes, they left what was called Yugoslavia, but if you do your research, Yugoslavia was not one state; as it says on the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia article (where Sakic's parents would have left from), "the state was divided into six Socialist Republics, and two Socialist Autonomous Provinces that were part of SR Serbia." It is like saying that a Polish immigrant at the turn of the century was Russian, German or Austrian. They weren't, it just was the country ruling over them. So, unless anyone can prove that Sakic is not Croatian, but Yugoslav (which is a blanket term for all South Slavs, Croats included), don't revert again. Kaiser matias 21:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It is very similar to Wayne Gretzky's heritage. He's of Polish background and his grandparents were Polish immigrants from a village which is now located in Belarus. It was a part of the Russian Empire at the time. This, however, does not classify him as being Russian or Belorussan, just Polish. As for Sakic, it should have been stated that his parents came from Yugoslavia, not Croatia. Yugoslavia was formed of several states, but they were NOT independent countries. Croatia was NOT an independent country at the time when his parents came to Canada. It was part of Yugoslavia.

Norum 22 December 2006

That is a valid point, with a very good analogy. However, according to the article Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which would be the Yugoslavia of Sakic's parents, the state was divided into 6 socialist republics. It is similar to the former Soviet Union. It had several republics that were nominally independent, however all shared a unifying government. I'm going to make a change that should clarify the situation.

Speaking of the Soviet Union. Let's take Antropov and Ponikarovsky for example. Antropov is not a Kazakh. He's a Russian player born in the former Kazakh SSR. It does say he was born n Ust-Kamenogorsk, U.S.S.R. now Kazakhstan. Same goes for Ponikarovsky. He's Ukrainian, but it also specifies he was born in Kiev, U.S.S.R., now Ukraine. I think the way you have reverted to is good. Thanks.

Norum 24. Dec. 2004

Glad we've reached a consensus on this. However, it seems some people still do not like it. To whomever keeps changing this, there are reliable sources. The NHL reference is a notable one. And his speaking Croatian, which while a faulty point, is a good indicator he is/was Croatian. So simply put, stop changing this. Kaiser matias 21:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not the one who is doing this Norum 24.dec.2006

I'm not accusing you of doing this, don't worry. It's random users without accounts who seem to not care about any established facts. Kaiser matias 23:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I had to fail this for the following reasons:

1. The lead is too short and the structure of it needs to be greatly impoved. See WP:LEAD.
2. No references in Quebec, but more importantly,
3. the article has no paragraph structre, it's mostly 1 or 2 sentence chunks strewn everywhere.

So, it fails criterion 1c, and ceriterion 1 in general, among others. i would suggest a general expansion on his playing career, you guys can do fat better than that. this is quite heavily referenced though, so despite what I said in number 2, I really don't have a problem with that.--Wizardman 16:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)