User talk:Joanot

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Welcome!

Hello, Joanot, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --Lst27 19:22, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)----

Hola, Joanot.

Lo de Joanot Martorell es tu nombre de verdad, o seudónimo literario?

Me parece bien que quieras hilar fino con la traducción de "comunitat valenciana", pero en estos casos siempre es mejor consultar con un hablante nativo. Montrealais es Canadiense, traductor de profesión y es responsable de la mayoría de las páginas sobre el sistema autonómico español. Discute este asunto con él.

Salut! — Miguel 22:09, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Re:Sobre els municipis del País Valencià.

Hola Martorell. Lamente molt haver tardat alguns dies en contestar-te. Vaig llegir el teu missatge el mateix dia que el vas deixar, però no vaig tenir temps de contestar-te.

Abans de res he de dir-te que de cap manera podria sentir-me ofès pels canvis que has realitzat als articles. Wikipedia és un projecte lliure al qual tothom pot participar. M'agrada escriure articles relacionats amb la província d'Alacant quan tinc un poc de temps i em pareixeria fenomenal que ens posarem d'acord per elaborar una llista de recomanacions d'estandardització i evitar així criteris inconsistents. Jo algunes vegades he dubtat en com escriure algunes coses, sobretot els noms de les comarques (porten o no l'article?).

He llegit també el Viquiprojecte Municipis del País Valencià i crec que hi ha algunes coses que, com deies, caldria adaptar per aquesta Wikipedia en anglès, i per tant, internacional. Te les comente a continuació i espere que pronte em digues què t'ha paregut. Per això vaig a fixar-me en un dels últims articles que vas modificar, el de la ciutat d'Elx:

  • Crec que estaràs d'acord amb mi si et dic que devem respectar els noms oficials dels topònims i de les institucions. El problema sorgeix quan les localitats tenen un parell de noms oficials (i això ocorre quasi sempre), ja que només un únic nom pot ocupar el lloc del títol. Es podrien fer dues coses:
    • Renomenar les localitats amb una fórmula que continguera els dos noms oficials, com per exemple, renomenar Elx a Elx/Elche o Torrevieja a Torrevella de la Mata/Torrevieja. Aquesta solució no em pareix gens estètica, i per la meua banda queda totalment descartada.
    • Renomenar les localitats amb el nom la llengua del qual sigui predomini lingüístic en aquesta localitat. D'aquesta forma Elx es quedaria com està i Torrevieja també. Aquesta possibilitat em sembla la millor solució. De la mateixa forma no crec que calga fer traduccions forçades a un o altre idioma de localitats que només tenen un únic nom oficial, com en el cas de referir-se a Torrellano com Torre del Pla o a Beneixama com Benejama.
  • D'altra banda, crec que a les plantilles sí es deurien mostrar les dues denominacions oficials de cada localitat si les tingueren: com ara en la plantilla del Baix Vinalopó, Crevillent/Crevillente, Elx/Elche i Santa Pola.
  • Ara un dubte: creus que és necessari especificar en quin idioma està dit cada nom oficial? Què deuríem posar, "Elx or Elche" i gens més o "Elx (in Catalan) or Elche (in Spanish)"? D'ací em sorgeix un nou dubte: Català o Valencià? Jo opte per usar el terme "Català".
  • El mateix ocorre amb els gentilicis: "il·licitans or ilicitanos" front a "il·licitans (in Catalan) or ilicitanos (in Spanish)".
  • Després tenim el dilema del "Valencian Country". Sé que és un tema molt polèmic. Jo sóc partidari d'usar "Comunitat Valenciana" com un terme intraduïble o "Autonomous Community of Valencia" o "Valencia (autonomous community)", però mai d'usar "Valencian Country", ja que no és aquest el seu nom oficial. Per això, a l'espera que haja consens, crec que el més prudent seria emmarcar-lo dins de la província que correspon i no dins de la seua comunitat autònoma. En aquest cas, direm que Elx està a la província d'Alacant. Qué opines? (per cert... Land of Valencia no m'agrada)
  • Finalment, per evitar polèmiques sobre si es deu dir "Aeroport de L'Altet/Aeropuerto del Altet" o "Universitat Miguel Hernández/Universidad Miguel Hernández" pense que deuríem usar termes en anglès o neutres com ara "Airport of Alacant" o "Universitas Miguel Hernández", com apareix a la seua pàgina web.

Ja em comentes qué et pareix tot; salutacions. --Waninoco 21:11, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dear Joanot,

I am afraid I have to ask you to stop using a template to create the Alicante article - this is contrary to Wikipedia conventions on article names. In general, an article is to be created at either English or the most commonly used name. For alternate names, redirects are used, not templates.

If you want to use a solution which is not utilized anywhere else on Wikipedia, please discuss it first on the article's talk page. Thank you.

Sincerely, Mike Rosoft 16:16, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From Land of Valencia

I've seen that you usually contribute on articles related to catalan-speaking countries and its culture and language. What do you think about to plan an article such this: Wikipedia:Catalan translation of the week?. I've also purposed the idea to Joan sense nick. --Martorell 19:58, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm probably a bit overcommitted right now, so I'm not sure how active a participant I will be, but I think it is a great idea. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:41, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Good! That will help to have more translations, I hope. How does it works? --Joan sense nick 22:37, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tirant lo Blanc

Joanot, in removing the "Catalonia stub" from the article all you are doing is making it far harder for any editors to find this article to expand. In other words, your action is working against Wikipedia's ability to properly promote or present reasonable articles about the issue. This harms Wikipedia and - indirectly - disfavours Land of Valencia. If you think that a stub could be used for Land of Valencia, feel free to propose one at WP:WSS/P.

Besides, your deletion of Catalonia-stub is quite a non-sense. The article says "Tirant lo Blanc is one of the most important books of Catalan literature". It's obious that there is some kind of relationship between "Catalan literature" and "Catalonia". Of course, if a "catalan literature stub" or a "catalan language stub" were created, this stub reference should be moved from generic Catalonia to one of these ones.

You can propose the creation of such stubs. But removing the link before is an act of vandalism.--Joan sense nick 17:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Escolta, nen, és molt extrany que m'escrigues en anglés si ens podem entendre en la mateixa llengua pròpia. Bé, tot el que dius té prou de trellat, així que, si ho prefereixes, podem deixar ambdues plantilles. Per altra banda, això que s'ha de proposar un model d'esborrany abans d'anar fent-ho no ho sabia. M'ajudes a proposar-ho? El meu anglés no és gaire fort :\. --Joanot Martorell ✉ 17:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


Abans de res et demano excuses pel to un pèl agre del meu comentari anterior. L'he fet en calent (i l'he copiat en anglès), sense comprovar que, efectivament, ja havies creat un "Land of Valencia stub" ...i que la teva trajectòria no és la d'un vàndal. Ho sento.

He sotmès a discussió durant dues setmanes la creació del "Catalonia stub", després m'han fet veure que el nom no encaixa al format del projecte, i que els del Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting ho arreglaran d'aqui uns díes... i em trobo un revert del link ...grrr!.

En fi, anant al tema: Ara tenim stubs català i valencià. Jo crec que, de moment, els temes comuns (de llengua, cultura, història...) poden tenir doble adscripció. De moment, jo consolidaria aquests davant de blocatges o vandalisme. Potser més endavant es poden crear noves sub-categories "Catalan language stub" "Catalan literature stub", etc, com fan altres llengues. Jo evitaria "Catalan countries stub". Que et sembla?

Jo, de moment, no vull afegir articles a la categoria "Catalonia stub" fins que no canvïin el nom (de Catalonia-related a Catalonia a seques) per a no donar feina.

Pel que fa a proposar a debat "Land of Valencia stub", ara ja no té sentit. Si els del projecte fan alguna altra observació (mira't Category:Spain-related stubs) i puc ser d'alguna ajuda compta amb mi.

Del que es tracta és de que els stubs vagin creixent fins a ser articles complets! Salut! --Joan sense nick 23:12, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, writing in English would be more than correct on the English-language version of Wikipedia, but the fact that this the English-language version of Wikipedia, Joanot, is something that you seem to lose sight of quite often. Writing in Catalan about an article in English, on the other hand, seems quite off the mark. Fins AviatBlondlieut 16:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Valencia-stub

Hi - I note you've recently created a new stub category. Did you realise that stub categories should normally be cleared by Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting before creation? That way they can be vetted to check that there are a viable number of stubs (at least 60-100) and that the category does not cross the existing stub hierarchy before the stub is created.

If you can provide any information on why the stub was created, please add a note to entry for the stub at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries giving the reason for it. In addition, if there is any Wikiproject associated with the stub add that information. Thanks.

In the case of this stub, the stub seems reasonable, although there are two or three guidelines that should be followed with it, which I've listed at the top of Cat:Land of Valencia stubs. These relate to double-stubbing of geography and biography stubs. Be aware, however, that if the stub category does not reach a viable level of activity, it is likely to eventually be nominated for deletion at WP:SFD.

In future, if you wish to create any stub types, please use the standard practice of proposing them at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals first. Grutness...wha? 07:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gràcies!

Gràcies company per canviar la icona de la senyera. Felicitats per la iniciativa teua i d'en Joan_sense_nick de les categories d'esborranys. Toniher 16:16, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Peñiscola

Why is Peñiscola now Peníscola? I can argue on historical linguistics grounds. --FourthAve 06:39, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

"Because when there is no traditional name in English". Oh, yes there is, the EB 1911, which is is pretty authorative. We have the Spanish spelling, the Catalan spelling, and then the English spelling. The tilde is better at de-sexualizing the place-name. --FourthAve 09:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Revisions of Idiomatic English

The "X Act of 2004" is a "law" or "statute" in English; a "plain city" is dull or boring place, and laws and regulations are enacted or promulgated (or even sometimes "made," as legislators are sometimes called "law-makers"), but not "produced" (films are produced in English, not laws, although I realize that in Spanish and in Catalan, films are "realized"). I would suggest that limit your edits to matters of substance, and not matters of English-language word usage.Blondlieut 15:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cut and paste move?

I cannot work out what you did with Land of Valencia, Valencia (autonomous community), and their respective talk pages. It looks to me like you did some sort of cut-and-paste move. Please see Wikipedia:How to fix cut and paste moves. This one is beyond me to decipher, let alone fix, though. All I can say is: please don't do this. If you want to move a page, and the "move" tool won't do it, please use Wikipedia:Requested moves and let an administrator take care of it. These things are really hard to fix after the fact. - Jmabel | Talk 06:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Wikiproject Sicily

Hi Joanot! Long time no see - I don't know if you remember me, but we have exchanged notes on the odd occasion (and from memory, I think you translated my user page on ca.wiki). I noticed that you changed a potential title in the above project page to refer to the Aragonese period of Sicilian history as the Catalan period (or something similar, I'm going from memory). As you know, I am a great admirer of Catalan language, history and culture, especially so since it had a big influence on the Sicilian language. While I haven't changed it yet, I have to admit that the historians generally refer to the Aragonese rather than the Catalan when discussing this period of Sicilian history. I personally don't know enough to say whether it is correct or not, and I understand that during this period Catalan was one of the official languages of the Sicilian royal court (along with Sicilian), so I can see your logic in using the term "Catalan", but once again, I feel I should probably go with the term used by most (if not all) historians on this period. The article isn't started yet and may not be for a while, so there is plenty of time to discuss and I would love to hear your views on the subject. Salutamu! ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 08:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] V or B

Pronounciation for Spanish names must be given in standard Spanish, which is understood as the unmarked pronunciation, not in regional variations: i.e. Sevilla is not down as /se·biː·ʝa/ although this is the local pronunciation (instead /se·biː·ʎa/). I have no intention on edit-warring on this, I just want you to understand that this is not a matter of respecting local sensibilities but writing an encyclopedia. By the same rule, most -if not all- the placenames in Latin America containing "za", "ce", "ci", "zo" or "zu" would be transcribed as /sa/, /se/ and so on, because the local seseo. Regards, E Asterion u talking to me? 21:50, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa dialectal del català

Fotre, Joanot, perquè sempre has de canviar el mapa quan jo pose el meu?. És que et sap mal que el pose? Collons, ja t'ho vaig dir en un altre comentari a la teua pàgina de discussió de la Viquipèdia, què li passa al meu mapa que l'has de canviar pel teu, primer, estant en català i no en anglés i, segon, no té l'alguerés. El meu està més complet, fotre, no sé com dir-t'ho, de veritat. No vull cabrejar-me però és que em fas cabrejar i també ho fas a la pàgina de dialectes del català. T'ho demane per favor, no canvies el meu mapa pel teu. --Pepetps 12:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Valencian Community

Joanot, no mientas más, y no tragiverses la realidad. Por el hecho de que la Wikipedia en catalán carezca de neutralidad y sea un foro propagandístico de separatistas como tú no significa que aquí se vaya a tolerar tal cosa. Su nombre oficial y único es "Comunidad Valenciana"/"Comunitat Valenciana", y eso se traduce en inglés como "Valencian Community" (véase la página web de la Generalidad Valenciana). Deja ya de dar la brasa, por favor. Satesclop 14:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Everyone makes mistakes. Thanks for the explanation. --Asteriontalk 22:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Catalan diet

You clearly have a clue on things Catalan; could I ask you to take a look at my comments at Talk:Catalan people#Diet? Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 23:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Apenas sé hablar inglés

Por favor, no me hables más en inglés. Eres un vándalo, porque quieres las cosas como tu ideología separatista quiere. Yo quiero las cosas como son oficialmente. Has trasladado lo del equipo ciclista de la "Comunidad Valenciana" a "Comunitat Valenciana" porque "es el nombre oficial del equipo". Muy bien, entonces ¡¿por qué en la Wikipedia en catalán tenéis puesto "País Valencià"?! Tu ves algo que tenga que ver con España, o que sea español, y empiezas a hacer de todos los chanchullos para que no sea así. Lo último es poner un mapa localizador donde sólo aparece la mitad de España. Te voy a revertir siempre, porque eres un vándalo, y no aprendes que las cosas no son oficialmente como tu quieres, sino como son. Gracias a Dios que tu comunidad autónoma está gobernada por el PP, y no hay problema, porque la gente que piensa como tú no la puedo soportar. Siempre te revertiré. Siempre. Y como sigas poniendo la bandera de la Comunidad Valenciana que te has inventado, voy a avisar a algún administrador. Y recuerda: no me hables en inglés, ni en valenciano sino en castellano. Satesclop 14:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject and manners

Hi; please be advised that changing the order of tags as you are doing with the Catalan Countries Wikiproject may be seen as POV pushing and, in any case, for sure out of wikiquette and thus it could be reverted. Please keep the existing timely order. Mountolive | Talk 16:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Please be advised that, unless you revert the major additions, I am going to report to an administrator your mass editing at an article which is subjected to intense talk page activity. You did that mass editing regardless any consensus in talk page. You are not smarter than anyone, you know? It would be nice if you proposed your changes in the talk page and we would find consensus there. Kindly let me know if you will revert in good faith or not. Mountolive | Talk 16:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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