Talk:Joan Clos i Matheu

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I think this article should be expandend and cleaned up. I don't deny the importance of the Carmel affair and the Forum...but I think is highly unappropriate and unbalanced to show only these items.

Contents 1 "Subjectivity" as an excuse for censorship. 2 new comment 3 THIS ARTICLE IS HIGHLY PARTISAN ....ANTI-CLOS PROPAGANDA!!!! 4 This article is very subjective 5 Biased 6 The Spanish entry not one to emulate 7 . 8 I agree to the accusation of subjectivity 9 Litany of errors? 10 A case of the worst plagiarism

[edit] "Subjectivity" as an excuse for censorship.

I think the previous editor's deletion was far too drastic. Labelling something "subjective" should not be used to censor information concerning social issues. City mayors are often controversial figures - New York's Guiliani and London's Ken Livingstone being just two cases that spring to mind.

Mayor Clos' town planning policies in Barcelona are also controversial and the issues they raise have been extensively covered in the Spanish and Catalan press. Given that the "Barcelona Model" is often mentioned in European planning and architectural circles, it seems entirely reasonable to reflect these currents of opinion in an article on the city's mayor. The original article spelled out why Mayor Clos' policies had attracted criticism without taking sides. Is that not infinitely preferable to censoring the current debate concerning his mayoralty?

[edit] new comment

This article is absolutely incomplete and by no means should be taken in consideration for an aproach to Joan Clos' policies.

[edit] THIS ARTICLE IS HIGHLY PARTISAN ....ANTI-CLOS PROPAGANDA!!!!

Barcelona es ya una ZONA NEGRA

[edit] This article is very subjective

I also think that it is not neutral. I went to the Forum and I liked it very much. I also think that Joan Clos' popularity is not as bad as the article says. Maybe someone should translate the catalan or spanish article about him because those articles are very good, objective and long. Of course Joan Clos carreer is not only the one that apears in the article. It is also very badly written, because it say things like "Caramel" in stead of "Carmel" or "debâcle".

[edit] Biased

I agree with the comments, the article is biased to two negative issues. It even doesn't explain his life!!! I propose to clean the official biography: http://w3.bcn.es/V00/Home/V00HomeLinkPl/0,2587,2244713_2284317_3,00.html

Well, I propose something. What about if we edit the article, eliminate the unecessary negative references, and actually add information that has to do with his political life before being mayor of Barcelona. I have been reading his article on the Spanish wikipedia, and to be honest its much better than the actual Wikipedia English article. Also, we can use some few facts from the Mayor's website which was posted by the previous user. -Lrd1rocha 04:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Spanish entry not one to emulate

Actually, the Spanish entry reads like something out of "Who's Who" (which in Spain works on the "vanity publishing" principle). Indeed, apart from the single word "controvertido" [controversial] (conveniently skimmed over), the Spanish article reads like an exercise in political hagiography. The English contribution may have its flaws but at least it gives a real flavor of Clos' mayorship and an insight into the heated debate concerning Barcelona's development model.

[edit] .

Actually, there is nothing wrong with "débâcle" even if the American preference is to omit accents. The following entry is from the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary:

Main Entry: debacle Pronunciation: dE-'bä-k&l, -'ba-; ÷'de-b&-k&l Variant(s): also débâcle /also dA-'bäk(l&)/ Function: noun Etymology: French débâcle, from débâcler to clear, from Middle French desbacler, from des- de- + bacler to block, perhaps from (assumed) Vulgar Latin bacculare, from Latin baculum staff Date: 1802 1 : a tumultuous breakup of ice in a river 2 : a violent disruption (as of an army) : ROUT 3 a : a great disaster b : a complete failure : FIASCO

A previous contributor to the discussion may be unaware of the fact but "Spanish" and "Catalan" are both spelled with an initial capital letter.

[edit] I agree to the accusation of subjectivity

The article in fact doesn't give any information about Clos apart from his mistakes. It reads like "Joan Clos' mistakes in Barcelona" instead of being a thread about him.

[edit] Litany of errors?

The problem is that Clos has made so many blunders that it is well-nigh impossible to refer to his mayoralty without mentioning them. To do so would be like trying to appraise the mayoralty of New York's "Boss" Tweed without mentioning Tammany Hall, or leaving out bootlegging from Joseph Kennedy's political career. Inclusion of biographical details from Clos' ertwhile job as an anaesthesist seems of little value (although they may help explain Mayor Clos' apparent gift for giving soporific political speeches).

Soporific speeches? On the contrary, Joan Clos' speeches are always hilarious!

[edit] A case of the worst plagiarism

The current version is simply a COPY and PASTE of the information used on the webiste:

http://www.bcn.es/alcalde/english/biografia.htm

I find this utterly unacceptable for Wikipedia standards. If you don't have anything to say, just make a short bio with some basic (verifiable, please) facts and then link down at the reference section to the above page. Apart from the propaganda claims found in this talk, there should be a concern about this kind of sad plagiarism.