User talk:JianLi/Archive 1

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Welcome!

Hello, JianLi/Archive 1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

V. Molotov


23:13, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

Boys Nation/Girls Nation

I agree with you that Girls Nation needs to be cleaned up, but it is a separate entity from Boys/Girls State. Perhaps you should discuss your concerns on talk:Girls Nation or talk:Boys Nation, or make edits to those articles to clean them up. I don't believe it is appropriate to do away with the separate "Nation" articles, because they are notable in their own right. For example Bill Clinton is famous for attending Boys Nation as a high school student. --rogerd 21:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Control+Enter IE shortcut

Hi, just wanted to let you know I answered your question about the IE shortcut at the Reference Desk. --jh51681 19:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Prime numbers in nature

I agree. I think the good content could be merged with prime number and the article deleted. Fredrik Johansson 06:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, the AFD was started and can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prime numbers in nature. By the way, in future if you want to list an afd, good instructions for how to do it can be found at Template:AfD in 3 steps. All the best, — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 13:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

RE:List of Goosebumps books

Hey, I noticed your comments about Goosebumps articles at the village pump. I've moved the list of books within the article to a new article (List of Goosebumps books) in the hope that the articles for individual books may be merged into the list.JianLi 23:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea, I do think it was destroying the article. ViridaeTalk 02:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Signing your name

Friendly reminder: With regards to this edit, please don't sign your name on non-talk pages, and definitely not in articles. Kimchi.sg 20:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

oops, i don't know how that happened. I was moving between the afd page and the article, so it was unintentional.JianLi 20:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Barry Minkow

You asked where were the links to news articles - when your edit removed them at the end of the article. - Skysmith 23:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, the removal was unintentional. I don't know if you're aware, but many users have been inadvertently doing that as a result of the widely-known bug.
Anyway, the reason I put the references template up was because I was concerned about the quality of the external links, and therefore of the article itself. Of the four links, two are definitely not NPOV (they are from the institutions that he is the leader of) and the third is a dead link. There is one good link, however, the WSJ one. JianLi 04:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I see. Makes sense. I checked the sources I originally used and did not find them any more, unfortunately - Skysmith 07:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Edit summary

When editing an article on Wikipedia there is a small field labeled "Edit summary" under the main edit-box. It looks like this:

Edit summary text box

The text written here will appear on the Recent changes page, in the page revision history, on the diff page, and in the watchlists of users who are watching that article. See m:Help:Edit summary for full information on this feature.

Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors in understanding what you changed, so please always fill in the edit summary field, especially for big edits or when you are making subtle but important changes, like changing dates or numbers. Thank you. -- MightyWarrior 09:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Crazy Watto

Hi. I removed the speedy tag from this article as it did not provide a criteria which is valid for a speedy deletion. Thanks TigerShark 19:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see Criteria for speedy deletion for criteria you can apply. Just 4 deletes on AfD after a day is not a category for speedy deletion, I'm afraid. Please note that the template {{db-afd}} is only used when an admin has closed a debate, but the article has not been deleted. Thanks. Tyrenius 19:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok. I didn't know that :-p JianLi 19:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I fixed the AFDs, but I am new to deletion

Hi, I think I fixed the AFDs mentioned on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angela Russell. I wasn't sure what I was doing. I do hope you vote to delete the cruft. Adam 1212 21:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey Adam, thanks for your efforts in eliminating anchor-cruft. However, I think I'll revert those edits, as I made all of them link to Angela Russell's AFD page on purpose. I nominated these articles for deletion as a group, and when nominating multiple related pages for deletion, successive pages should actually link to the first page's AFD link, which is Angela Russell's AFD page. I'm pretty sure of this, but I'm new to this myself (and these rules are confusing!) This will actually save us much time, because it's tedious creating new pages for each AFD.
So anyway, I think we should adopt this plan of action:
  1. Identify the anchor-cruft articles (just look at Pressure Thirteen's Contribs
  2. Tag them all for deletion to a main page, which I will designate as Angela Russell's AFD page
  3. Eliminate the other AFD pages, making a note that they have been redirect to Angela Russell's AFD page because they are related AFDs
JianLi 03:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Your AFDs for Fanboys (film) and The Formula (2002)

Please see these previous AFDs from last month: Fanboys and The Formula Both movies had a consensus to keep (Fanboys was nearly unanimous). Typically, we wait about 3-6 months before renominating something that was kept before. --Coredesat talk. o.o;; 10:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I wasn't aware of the previous AFD. JianLi 04:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angela Russell

Hi. This AfD discussion is getting into a bit of a mess, due to the addition of new articles. I have made a comment to this effect on the AfD page, and suggested a course of action. Can you please have a look? Thanks TigerShark 11:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. Is there some way we can restart the discussion on the same page? Otherwise, if we made a new page, we'd need to redirect the AFD links on each of the dozens of article pages! JianLi 16:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Never mind. It seems to have been moved here. JianLi 16:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Marc Howard and SallyAnn Mosey

I think we could just mention in the other page the Marc Howard article, as for SallyAnn Mosey, she is on a channel with national and international distribution, WNBC, so I think she would be a good canidate to stay because she is on a channel which is seen by more people over a much wider geographical area. Adam 1212 18:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Good news, Marc Howard is gone! Here is hoping the rest of the crufty TV people go too. Adam 1212 02:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Great! JianLi 21:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Re : Please help me delete this article

Looks like another sysop has beaten me to deleting the article already. ;) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 18:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks anyway :) JianLi 19:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Linking to Redirects (copied from the Help Desk for my own reference)

I have a question about making wikilinks to redirects. So, for example puppy, puppies, and dogs all redirect to dog. Here are a few related questions:

  • If I wanted to have the following sentence in an article, "George Washington owned a puppy", with "puppy" hyperlinked. Should I have it as just [[puppy]] or [[dog|puppy]]?
  • Alternatively, if the sentence is "George Washington owned many puppies", should I have just [[puppies]] or [[puppy|puppies]] or [[dog|puppies]]?
  • And finally, if the sentence is "George Washington owned many dogs", should I have just [[dogs]] or [[dog|dogs]] or [[dog]]s?
  • If you have any other variations on the theme, feel free to add them

Thanks JianLi 18:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

You can leave it as [[puppy]]. That's what redirects are for. Ditto for the second case, i.e. [[puppies]]. In the last case, you would want [[dog]]s. There are some people who think that redirects shouldn't be linked to if possible and will go around piping everything, but AFAIK this is a minority POV. —WAvegetarian•(talk) 18:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
In fact, "fixing" redirects is explicitly discouraged - see Wikipedia:Redirect#Don't fix links to redirects that aren't broken. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I get it now. Thanks! JianLi 01:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion

Request has been done. Feel free to contact me if you need anything. Yanksox 05:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

will do. thanks! JianLi 05:41, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I've declined the Suzanne Farmer CSD because about.com mirrors Wikipedia. Keep up the good work. Yanksox 06:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, that is odd. Yanksox 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

JT111

thanks for helping me block User:JT111 --JianLi 00:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Looks like there's a fair amount of cleanup to be done in his wake, as well. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, for one, there is the matter of deleting Amy Zidian yet again. It has already been deleted and reposted four times. Is there a way to block it from being reposted again? JianLi 00:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I've taken care of it (took a bit of research to learn how to do it, but now I know for next time!) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 01:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:Vandalism

Why have you done this without explaining the reason, you impolite? I was not vandalizing the page, I have only tried to show the motives behind damages on articles. User:Egr (User talk:Egr), 30/7/2006

I regret offending you. However, the sentence I removed was "Sometimes, who commits a vandalism, hates the subject of the damaged article, but doesn't want to talk seriously about it." I believe this sentence to be grammatically incorrect. For one, the sentence doesn't even have a subject (grammar). JianLi 17:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Scientific priority

A list would be an easily place to start, I agree, and could be a useful way to both form the basis of an article and a place to shunt off people who just want to add their pet priority disputes to a more comphrensive article. I'll try to start one soon but if you want to start, please feel free! --Fastfission 18:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Your comments

Decadeology has only three links to it, as shown here. So there's nothing to be deleted. The Cosmos Crystals is gone and I'm looking into the third. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

help

I have been unjustly labeled as a sockpuppet. A simple IP check will confirm that I am the only username at this IP. I don't know how to correctly remove the label. Please, after you confirm this, delete my user page so that this label is no longer in my records. JianLi 05:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest you ask about this at the admin's noticeboard. If you wish for someone to check your IP to clear you, please ask here.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 05:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know why the tag was added, but I've removed it. I cannot find a reasonable explanation for why it was applied. No rush to apply the label without evidence. --HappyCamper 05:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, I'm not too sure myself. Sometimes, common sense is best. I'm a bit concerned that this happened to you, so give me a bit of time to ask around and find out more information. I'll be back. --HappyCamper 05:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The problem is, you contribute like the sockpuppets, talk like the sockpuppets, and vote like the sockpuppets.

[1] (Calls article crufty) [2] (Socks like Adam 1212, Rekarb Bob and Kramden call article crufty). It's obvious JianLi is a sockpuppet. --CFIF (talk to me) 12:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

  • CFIF did the same to me because I thought some articles that he happened to work on should be deleted and has done this to others. It seems that anyone he disagrees with is a sockpuppet according to him, something that seems like parinoia. I have requested an investigation of User:CFIF and his administrator accomplice User:Splash. You can add your thoughts on the problem at the Wikipedia:Requests for investigation page, just look for CFIF and Splash. José is Fluid 14:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
. Thanks, I'll check it out. In reponse to CFIC, I used the word "crufty" because it seemed like part of the jargon of the AFD forums, which I had just joined. Therefore I adopted it. How is that conclusive evidence that I am a sockpuppet? Just check my user contributions. There are hundreds before my participation in the AFDs and occur months before them too. Just take a look: (Special:Contributions/JianLi) JianLi 16:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

User:CFIF and User:Splash

Be warned that User:CFIF and User:Splash seem to be a tag team of abusers. It looks like User:CFIF is the one who decides who is a sockpuppet and User:Splash is the one that takes punitive action against them. It seems wrong and I wonder how many innocent people have gotten caught up in their parinoid witch hunt. This - User talk:Splash#Possible new Spotteddogsdotorg sockpuppet - is where User:CFIF has accused me and you on User:Splash's talk page of being a sockpuppet of User:Spotteddogsdotorg. These two seem to have a shared paranoia between them. I am starting to wonder if User:CFIF may be User:Spotteddogsdotorg and is doing this as part of a vandalism campaign. Regardless, it is just wrong and I hope that the proper action will be taken. José is Fluid 17:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Apology

Hey, sorry about the sockpuppet thing. I acted too harshly in your case. --CFIF (talk to me) 20:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

moved from my user page

im sorry but im not sure how to send messages so i am using this instead. How do you make a page? I want to make one but im not sure how. Also could you tell me how to send messages. I am sory but this is the only way i can contact people at the moment —The preceding unsigned comment was added by james marlow (talk • contribs).

Joe Francis vandal

Hi, JianLi. I've blocked Hypertime McMultiverse (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log), and am about to take care of the silly image he put on Joe Francis. (I know nothing about that page or the individual concerned, but that image is unacceptable.) If the user returns and tries to put the image back, or otherwise vandalizes the page, let me know on my talk page and/or put it back up at WP:AIV. If the vandalism persists, we can semiprotect the page. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi again. Sorry I wasn't around to finish taking care of that vandal — I was busy in real life last night and this morning, and only just got back on the 'pedia. Is the situation resolved now? The images he uploaded at Commons have now been deleted, and all the accounts you listed have been blocked. I probably should have blocked the IP as well, but with only one edit from the IP I was reluctant to label it as a vandal-only account. Looking back, I probably dropped the ball on that one. Sorry.
As for vanity pages: the general rules are here. In short, if the article doesn't make a claim of notability it can be speedied; if it does, it can be put on AfD. Of the two examples you mentioned, it looks like Aaron Peluso was the former (and has already been deleted). Paul Witney is the latter, and I'll put it on AfD if you like.
Let me know if you have any other concerns — I'll usually reply more promptly than I did this time! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks, the situation is (mostly) resolved now. However
    • Srcbreaktime1 block log is only blocked for 24 hours. This is shorter than the others.
    • More importantly, the user seems to be able to change IP addresses easily. See this for an example of the same picture vandalism under a different IP address. Is it possible to somehow block this user even when he is using a different IP address? If not, our IP blocks feel ineffectual to me, as the user can merely change IP's and vandalize again.

JianLi 17:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

    • another possible IP of his. JianLi 17:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I've blocked Srcbreaktime1 indefinitely now. As for blocking multiple IPs — it is possible to do a range block if all the IPs are in the same range, but it's a bit tricky and there's more chance of collateral damage. If the vandal is mostly sticking to one page, that page can be semiprotected, which will prevent anyone from editing the page anonymously or with a newly-created account. Of course, a determined vandal can find ways around that, and in extreme cases the page can be fully protected, but that's a last resort.
If you have more trouble with this vandal, it might be a good idea to put a note on WP:AN/I, to make more admins aware of the situation. I'll try to keep an eye on it, but more eyes would be better. :) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Moved from User page

Todd P webpage

This message is from the user Toddyking. Please note that the Todd P page I created is NOT about me. I am not Todd P, and I have nothing to do with this individual other than the fact that we share the same first name and I spoke to him once, for about 10 minutes, at a concert. Before deleting the Todd P article for lack of significance, please note that Todd P's concert promotion efforts have been discussed in many major publications including _The New York Times_ and _The Village Voice_ (see links in the Todd P article). This is because, for better or for worse, Todd P exerts a major influence on the shape of indie rock music by organizing many concerts (on average probably 3 or 4 per week) in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, where a substantial portion of the fan base of this music is concentrated. If you need proof that I am not Todd P, I can send you an e-mail from my official university e-mail address, so you can see that he and I have different names. Thanks for your attention to this matter.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Toddyking (talk • contribs).

David L. Wagner

JianLi -- can you direct me to the policy regarding biographies and the criteria for "non-notable"? I do my best to identify articles that don't fit Wikipedia's criteria, but it's not always easy to tell. There are many, many new pages created that shouldn't be, so occassionally errors are made. For my education, what part of the biography guideline does Mr. Wagner meet in order to make him notable? Is it the presence of the article alone? Thanks in advance for your response as I seek to improve my "patrolling" abilities. (I'll gladly remove the tag after the research). CPAScott 16:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

User:CFIF

I have noted that you have had some problems with User:CFIF. I have requested that he/she be investigated on Wikipedia:Requests for investigation. Please add your problems with this user there. Thank you. Displaced Brit 16:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, JianLi! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Prodego talk 13:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have access to my moderator toolkit until tomorrow so it's probably best for you to contact another moderator to fix the problem. Sorry I can't be a lot of help. —Xyrael / 15:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, it doesn't look like any of us are; this is really bad and I apologise. —Xyrael / 15:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I am now. Do you have 1.2.2 or 1.3? Prodego talk 15:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
It is still in beta (as far as I know) and only a few people have it. If you did have 1.3 I couldn't approve you anyway, since I am not a mod for it (yet). Now you actually are on the functional list - User:AmiDaniel/Welcome to VandalProof - the other list is just for show, though I am not sure why you weren't added. I will add you to it, but that probably isn't the problem. Do you use Internet Explorer for your regular editing? Prodego talk 15:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
There are two possible problems
  1. Are you logging in? You do so under number 2 of the "You are not logged in" message
  2. Do you have cookies enabled in I.E.? They need to be for it to work.
Prodego talk 15:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
That is interesting. Is it possible you misspelled your name when you typed it in at the beginning? Type it in again under File -> Set username. Then try logging in again. Prodego talk 15:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the problem is at my end then, I'll see if Xyrael still online and can make a null edit for me. Prodego talk 15:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity I am going to ban your username from VandalProof for a second. Tell me if the message you get when you try to log in changes. Prodego talk 16:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
That is very odd. First of all it means the problem is at your end. Try setting your I.E. cookies to Medium. (I will unban you as well) Prodego talk 16:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I am completely out of ideas, so I am going to hand you off to Eagle 101 who is the other technical person, and see if he has any thoughts. Sorry I could help you out more, Prodego talk 20:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

VandalProof problems?

I do have 1.3 mod access, so I may be able to help you - are you still experiencing problems, and is there any way I can help? Thanks. —Xyrael / 09:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Kurt Vonnegut and prosopagnosia

Jianli, why did you delete the reference to Kurt Vonnegut's claim to have prosopagnosia from the "trivia" section of his article? I think it was quite appropriate and added to the article. I suggest you undo that edit. The fact would really not fit in anywhere else in the article, and as a "sufferer" of prosopagnosia myself, I can assure you it is pretty trivial. In fact, I did not know there was a name for it until I saw the Vonnegut article, so I appreciated it. Cheers.Codfish 17:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey Codfish, I merely removed it because there was no citation/footnote/reference for it. As WP:LIVING says, "Articles about living persons must adhere strictly to NPOV and verifiability policies. Be very firm about high-quality references, particularly about details of personal lives." My Google search of "kurt vonnegut prosopagnosia" returned no obviously reliable sources (though I only went as far as the first page), such as a news site or Vonnegut's own site, or even a quote from Vonnegut. The first hit was actually the Wikipedia article, and the rest were blogs and other such low-reliability sources, which did not give much credence to this "fact." My Google news search yielded nothing, though this is not surprising, as it only returns recent reults. So I searched the Proquest database, which returns news articles dating back decades, and came back with nothing. So, in the absence of proof, the sentence about Kurt Vonnegut and prosopagnosia cannot remain. But if you find a good source to back it up (blogs, etc. dont' count), then you can add it back along with the reference you found. --JianLi 18:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Andrei Shleifer

I reverted your edit [3] saying that he lost the titled professorship. The currently linked sources [4] still show him with that professorship. If you can cite a reliable source showing the loss, feel free to remake that edit with appropriate citation. GRBerry 21:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me. In fact, I do have an article from the Boston Globe titled, Harvard professor loses title in ethics violation. I am assuming that the web site is outdated. Also, the Boston Globe article cited in the "controversy" section which stated uncertainty about the matter is two days older than the one I cite, so I will be editing that section. --JianLi 02:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
And that is the way the wiki is supposed to work; we all improve the articles, using better sourcing. GRBerry 12:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

O (element) and the rest

These are not going to do any good, no one is at all likely to type in the words "O (element)" into the search box. Look over the Wikipedia:Disambiguation entry and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). 152.91.9.144 01:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I created "W (element)" because I typed that into the search box and it wasn't there. People probably won't go to O (element). But according to WP:RFD, redirects are cheap. They don't necessarily have to be high-traffic; they just have to be valid. --JianLi 05:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ghost

You added the {{neutrality}} template to the Ghost article, but you didn't specify your reasons for doing so, as you should have done on the article talk page. Thus, I have removed the template from the article page. You're most welcome to re-add this template, but don't forget to specify your reasons for doing so. /M.O (u) (t) 00:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Good point on GEB

I think I was the one who added that link to Lewis Caroll. You comments were spot on. --Comaze 04:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Identification

Are you the subject of Jian Li? If so, I'll put {{Notable Wikipedian}} on the talk page of the article. -Audacity 18:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that because the template is used to guard against violations of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, this username must be identified. However, if you're concerned about anonymity, it may be possible/ethical/within policy for you to get a new, anonymous username. But, if you do so, you shouldn't edit your article anonymously, as autobiographical editing, which is generally discouraged, should be done openly (BTW, your edit seems justified to me).
You might want to read Wikipedia:Autobiography for more details. Also, you should be aware that I listed you at Wikipedia:Wikipedians with articles. Λυδαcιτγ 02:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

User page

It would be good if you wrote a little (not too much) about yourself on your user page. It is not a home page, but it belongs to the wiki as general information. Perhaps, take an interest in the layout of others' users pages before starting your own. Snowman 23:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Some people redirect the user page to the talk page. Having a red link show for your user page creates work for others who are looking for potiential sources of errors on the wiki. Snowman 00:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
That sounds good. I've redirected it. --JianLi 00:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Archive

You have quite a long list here now. Some people archive there user page. I have archived mine using the cut and paste method. Snowman 10:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I'll do it soon. --JianLi 01:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
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