User talk:JFD/Archive1

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You have new messages (last change).

Hi JFD. I've posted a question for you on Talk:Bodhidharma. regards. --MichaelMaggs 20:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

JFD, Your repeated accusations of Personal attack is itself a Personal attack.I have not made any personal attack against you till now. Just merely pointing out the POVS of your edits will not make it a PERSONAL ATTACK. SO it would be better if you would stop these meaningless allegations.Bharatveer 04:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Bodhidarma

Just wanted to say what a great job you're doing on the Bodhidarma article. A couple of months ago it was in a pretty bad state, but you've massively improved it with some really good, sourced, edits. --MichaelMaggs 17:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] kalaripayattu

I forget where I actually read about the cera and cola wars... zarilli's latest book i think is 1998, i believe. regardless, that's fine with the removal. The key is to just present the facts... Kennethtennyson 19:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Table help

Hey, I noticed you did some really nice tables. Can you help me make one? CiteCop 04:22, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the article Taxila. I want a table like one of yours with the picture up top and the different names in different languages underneath, but I want it arranged horizontally, so instead of two vertical columns, we have one column for each language. Because the picture's so wide. I want three languages. Urdu and Sanskrit are already there. The Pāli for Taxila is "Takkasilā". Just cut & paste it so you don't have to bother with the diacriticals yourself. Thank you, by the way. CiteCop 04:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Exactly what I had in mind. Thank you! Um, how do you center it? CiteCop 04:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
You da man CiteCop 04:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] calmed down

sorry, it's like talking to a wall... you and i have had this discussion for over a year now... it keeps on repeating itself... first kalaripayattu, then some other random indian martial arts... and so forth...Kennethtennyson

i thought that i was pretty clear in the discussion... the whole section on the history of indian martial arts that freedom skies wrote is bogus... i've actually read those religious texts and there is no mention of anything that even approximates martial arts... mallah yuddha just means wrestling in ancient sanskrit...Kennethtennyson 21:10, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
i think i've done that on multiple occasions... he needs to leave the disputed tags on the article... good luck on your thesis... what is the subject matter? Kennethtennyson 21:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
You should write a book about martial arts history... there are a lot of really reaally bad books out there... the last one - boddhivista warriors was written by a guy who supposedly trained in the arts of all the east asian countries and then started his own martial arts... yet no one can find any information on him that supports that he did this... he was caught in some scandal with one of his martial arts students... the book by itself has so many errors in it and plagiarisms that it should never have been published...Kennethtennyson 21:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

How are you writing those long citations at the bottom of the page with the quotes?? is there a shortcut that i can use or do i have to write each one out? Good luck with your g.f. Kennethtennyson 22:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] interesting websites

that's quite interesting, but from a geopolitical viewpoint, i've been following the hindutva movement for quite a while now... india is undergoing almost a fascist movement... and suprisingly, there is a lot of Indian expatriates and indian americans/british who are succumbing to this movement... take a look at the california textbook debate... the sad thing is that our fellow here - freedom skies - appears to have been raised in america or britain and yet he seems more indian than american or british and along with that supports a radical view of the world that is peppered with religious ideas... and along with that - he is educated! It is truly sad... if india industrializes and this hindutva movement holds sway, the world will see a flourishing of a very powerful and scary radicalized country.Kennethtennyson 22:32, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

the scary thing is that this is just the beginning... the kids who have grown up in this environment are reaching adulthood now... we're probably not even dealing with the truly fanatical as of yet...Kennethtennyson 02:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thanks, but the fact is he keeps on removing the word fictional from the article... regardless, that was a minor point from my point of view.. the real thrust of my statement is that he is just plain POV and we shouldn't cater to it... thanks for the articles on what's happening... did you ever follow the california debate? the people funding and driving it actually are not in california but half way across the world Kennethtennyson 21:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes the people funding it are Christian Missionaries from DC, Muslim orgs from Pakistan, and Marxist orgs from India.Bakaman Bakatalk
"the sad thing is that our fellow here - freedom skies - appears to have been raised in america or britain and yet he seems more indian than american or british and along with that supports a radical view of the world that is peppered with religious ideas... and along with that - he is educated! It is truly sad... if india industrializes and this hindutva movement holds sway, the world will see a flourishing of a very powerful and scary radicalized country."

Firstly, can you tell me what being American is? American is made of of various immigrant and former immigrant communities from Italy, Ireland, China, Guatemala, and so forth. So, if Freedom Skies is being proud of his culture, is that evil? Secondly, you have an overestimation of countries outside of your world. Suggestion, join the Marine Corps. That is one thing I have learned is understanding the world through travel. Thirdly, I am utterly shocked at your comment on Freedom skies being educated as being a sad thing (if not, a scary thing). Does that threaten you that Indians are being educated? Please answer yes or no, thank you. Also, that statement reminds me of when the slaveowners back in the Southern part of America during the civil war used to consider Blacks getting education as a threat to their lifestyle. As a matter of fact, it was illegal for an Afro-American to go to school or even learn to read, since it was viewed as a threat to the racist slave owners. I will even go a further step to say that back then, these racists from the colonial South felt threatened that the slaves would become "a very powerful and scary radicalized community".

Regarding your previous posts, here is some food for thought. In the Marine Corps, as a Gunny Sgt. or someone in command, if you are at a bar or a party, you never show that you are drunk. If you are drunk, you do not admit it... learn from that pal... Indrancroos 08:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re

I sometimes collaborate with Bharatveer and also clashed once with User:Kennethtennyson on the Indian nationalism page when he vandalized it. I don't think we edit the same articles.Bakaman Bakatalk 01:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh and nice job on the Taxila table.Bakaman Bakatalk 01:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

bakasuprman has been blocked multiple times... Kennethtennyson 02:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:CIVIL

You didn't need to be so provocative. Bakaman Bakatalk 17:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by administrators or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. - Your comments were off the hook. Did I not tell your tag team partner to stop assigning motives to users. Provoking me [1] and especially this garbage [2].Bakaman Bakatalk 17:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Hi JFD - I was alarmed that you referred to me in an accusatory fashion, but I read your clarification so its ok. Please be more careful and friendlier in your comments and edits. All people make mistakes. It is true that Freedom skies has had problems of attitude, but although his behavior has been confrontational, you still need to keep to WP:CIVIL. Please do your best to be civil with Bakasuprman and others and resolve this issue peacefully. The stakes are not personal or high enough for you guys to risk being blocked/banned from editing. Best wishes, Rama's arrow 18:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

No sweat. I had dropped the matter as soon as I say your clarification on Bakasuprman's talkpage. Since you didn't intend to insult me, you shouldn't have to apologise. Just be calm from now on. Lemme know if I can ever be of assistance. Rama's arrow 19:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wen Family Boxing related to Taizu Changquan?

I thought you might like this. I've been corresponding with a Chuojiao master (who is friends with Jarek, founder of http://www.chinafrominside.com) living in Canada and he pointed me in the direction of a certain chap named Sal Canzonieri. This person has some pretty interesting views on the ancestry of Xingyi. For instance, he believes Xingyi finds its roots in Chuojiaofanzi boxing. Plus, and this is the main reason I am writing, he says he has background information on Wen Family boxing, which is supposedly a branch style of Song Taizu Changquan!?! I plan on writing Sal to see if he can shed a little bit more light on this subject.

HERE is a link to some of his entries on the Kungfu Magzine E-Forum. Tell me what you think of his findings. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 11:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC))

It seems you have prior knowledge of Sal. I joined the Kung Fu Magazine Forum just so I could contact him, but I'm still waiting on my account to be activated. You wouldn't happen to know his email address would you?
Could the other style Emperor Taizu synthesized into Changquan be Pào Chuí? (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 10:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC))
No, I'm not trying to establish a connection to Taichi. I mentioned it to see if it would kick-start your memory as you said Emperior Taizu had synthesized other styles (that you had forgotten) to make Taizu Long boxing. It seemed a likely candidate at the time.
Oh, if you could just tell Sall about the Zhou Tong (Shaolin Abbot) article, so he could make some additions to it, I would appreciate that as well. If he has any questions or comments, he can direct them to my user page or on the article's discussion page. This way I can get his email in the future for future correspondence. Thanks. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 18:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

Thanks for getting back to me so soon. I'll have to come up with a list of questions for Sal. In the Abbot Lineage section of the Zhou Tong article I mentioned how the official lineage ended some 300 years before his birth and so Zhou Tong might have been considered just a "senior-monk".

(In The lineage of Bodhidharma and his disciples section of the Bodhidharma page, I added the birth and death years of one of his great-grand disciples named Ching-yuan (1067-1120) [3]. Although a Zen master who lived at the appropriate time, this doesn’t mean he was an abbot of Shaolin either. Because the records were probably destroyed in the multiple burnings, its so very difficult to pin-point who the exact person was who headed the monastery at that time.

I even contacted Honorable Sir T.L. Yang regarding his translation of Yue Fei’s wuxia biography and he told me that he knew even less about Zhou Tong than I did. I contacted Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming regarding the history of Yue Fei, hoping he could shed some light on Zhou Tong, but he said that all of that info was in the Chinese historical library.)

I recently purchased a copy of Tiě Bèi Jīn Dāo Zhōu Tóng Zhuàn (铁臂金刀周侗传 - "Iron Arm, Golden Broadsword: The Biography of Zhou Tong"). Although it is a wuxia novel, I hope to extract what little factual historical information I can from it. Unfortunately my Chinese is very poor, so it may take me a while.

I'm sure Sal knows what he is talking about with his claims of Wen Family boxing hailing from Song Taizu Long boxing. However, I know how ancient legends can become accepted as historical fact (just look at Yue Fei and the Flooding of the Yellow River!). If it is true, that's awesome, but it just sounds like whatever oral tradition or book he got the info from might have been trying to link two ancient martial arts, which are synonymous with two famous people: Emperor Taizu and Yue Fei. I’ll accept his claims, but I’m sure most of my questions will be directed in this area.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 21:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

I contacted Sal via the Kung fu magazine forum. He wrote me back on my personal email address and said he loved the Zhou Tong article. He gave me some new info to add to the page, but I want to ask him more about the material before I make the changes. One of the things he told me was that the practitioners of "9 Ring Mandarin Duck Fanzi" look at Zhou Tong as the founder of their style.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 22:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] apologies

apologies over getting frustrated... how are things with your g.f visiting and your thesis? Kennethtennyson 00:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

This may seem unbelievable - I didn't even notice your quiet insertion of a precious gift. Thank you sir, I am in your debt! Rama's arrow 00:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You make too much of this - I only did what was right. Do not feel bad about what happened. Misunderstandings are pretty common. Rama's arrow 01:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Defmation warning

In the talk page, you have committed an act of Defmaation (Defamation rules apply to all of Wikipedia). The Defamatory post is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AIndian_nationalism&diff=73712901&oldid=73711711

You seem to have been capricious and disrespectful of others before, so, if you do not change your ways I will have no choice but to report you. Please do not detract editors from contributing meaningfully to wikipedia. Thank you.

I'm not requiring you to remove your statement as it is not in an article. Nonetheless, it is a violation of Wikipedia policies (see below) and you have been warned.

An important message

This notice has been left for you because another Wikipedia user suspects that, perhaps innocently, you may have defamed someone in your contributions. Please recheck your edits. Do not make allegations against someone unless you have provided evidence from a reliable publication, and then make sure you describe the allegations in accordance with our content policies, particularly Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. Don't rely on hearsay, rumours, or things you believe without evidence to be facts, and don't use sources to create a novel narrative. Wikipedia requires reliable sources for all claims. Please see our policy on biographies of living persons.

Comments that defame an individual may leave you open to being sued by them. While Section 230 of the United States Communications Decency Act may protect Wikipedia from being sued for defamation, it may not protect the person who posted a defamatory claim on a Wikipedia page. The Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees has ruled that: "Where the user has been vandalizing articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, [personal information] data may be released to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers." (Wikimedia privacy policy in full)

If you may have inadvertently defamed someone in an article, do two things:

  1. If the material is still there, remove it immediately.
  2. Leave a note on the administrator's noticeboard saying that you have accidentally included defamatory claims in a named article or articles. Don't repeat the claims. The claim can then be deleted from the page history.


Hkelkar 09:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


I will not report you as I am assuming good faith that your edit was out of ignorance of wikipedia rules and the defamation was unintentional. So I have decided to only give you a polite warning. If you persist then I may take further action. If you desist then you will have my thanks.Hkelkar 13:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


I genuinely believe that you have unintentionally committed an act of defamation, so I feel that it does not merit a reporting. Merely a warning that you should refrain from such immature comments in future as it can be perceived as an attack on a living person and is unwaarranted on wikipedia.Hkelkar 13:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Accusations of Racism

I noticed that you have been accused by several users of being racially bigoted against Indians. I find such an accusation interesting and would like to hear your side of the story (purely for my interest). If you could take the time, plz put something in my talk page regarding these allegations and your defense (if any) will be on record. I'd like to add that I have seen racist biases in many western scholars against Indians that are residual echoes of the virulently racist British Raj, and I feel that this business in California wrt textbooks was racially motivated on the part of the "scholars" and disproportionately defamatory to Hindus (I saw that you alluded to the incident several times in your conversations). Also, I think your opinions on Indian or Hindu Nationalism are based perhaps on ignorance of the meaning of the phrase, which you may be interpreting from the point of completely dissimilar movements in other countries with similar names.
A racist bias (perhaps a subconscious one) in this case is possible and that some of your edits may indicate such biases. However, it may just be either a simple series of misunderstandings, or possibly mere ignorance/misinformations on your part, instead of deliberate ethnocentric malice, and, if so, I would like to engage in dialogue to clear your misconceptions (if any). Thank you.

Hkelkar 21:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

This diff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AIndian_martial_arts&diff=73325122&oldid=73284088

Seems to accuse Kennethtyson and alludes to you as well, and comments from Freedom Skies in the talk page seems to indicate similar claims in the past also. I have offered to dialogue with Kennethtyson regarding this as well.

Hkelkar 21:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


The former diff above, while referring primarily to Kennethtyson, seems to accuse you and kennethtyson of forming some sort of cabal and, since he has been accused of racism, that accusation may have extended to you as well. Plus, this diff


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AIndian_martial_arts&diff=73365407&oldid=73358182

While generally being positive of you, alludes to possible problems in the past and, since the subject of the dicsussion was allegations of racism, I was concerned of possible biases and wish to address any.
Regarding the diffs you supplied in your last post, there are three points to mention:


  • I am not very knowledgable on martial arts, so can't comment on the content
  • The argument "I did it to other races as well" is not a legitimate one. We are talking about this specific instance, as well as the defwarn above as my response to what I felt was a pejorative remark with possible racist undertones, and whether all this points to a racist attitude or not. In the interests of civility and assuming good faith, I take no position on this matter and merely wish to hear you out.
  • Your diff here does not show any changes made in the content, and your talk page diff is merely a legitimate question asked and hardly racist in that connection, and no racist inference can be made (for or against) from it. However, it is possible to look at several of your posts (I'm sure you will remember them) regarding Subhash Kak as racially biased, particularly when you allege that he is not "mainstream" whereas he clearly IS and is well-published in reputable peer-review journals (an allegation which you shared with Kennethtyson). Plus, you (and kennethtyson) have been selectively editing articles to remove such alleged "Nationalist Biases", suggesting a possible anti-India obsession over other countries/nationalities/ethnicities, as well as so per your post here making statements that have many falsehoods.

Hkelkar 22:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I take back my claims of your statements regarding Kak. I keep getting confused between you and kennethtyson since your edits are so similar.
I do not believe that the nature of your edits in the "Chinese" article is the same as that of your edits on Indian Nationalism (by the way, there are racially "Chinese" ie mongoloid people in India also in Sikkim, AP, Nagaland etc.), since you did not make any changes in your diff of the article there. You discussed first. In Indian Nationalism, you changed first without discussing at all (not even after the change), like here.
Regarding the "Targeting of Scholars by Nationalists"
Well while I'll admit that some of the actions of the Indian nationalists have been heavy-handed wrt scholars, surely it isn't even remotely like the death-threats on Salmaan Rushdie by Iranian Ayatollahs for the Satanic Verses, or the Mohamed Cartoon riots worldwide. The truth is that many scholars in the US and Europe ARE racist and have made false and misleading comments against Hindus to defame them, either as a means to get publicity or because they have a deep hatred for or psychopathic obsession with Hindus. Given that bigotry, and the fact that they only single out Hindus for such treatment over those of other ethnic/religious backgrounds, the anger is entirely justified, though not all of the actions are. There is something sick in Western academia (a sickness that has leaked into Indian academia also).

Hkelkar 23:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The difference is that western academics don't make racist attacks against Muslims openly unlike their stance against Hindus. Hindus are a safe target and so are reaily attacked. If anything, western academics, for the most part, are hagiographic towards scholarship of Islam or Muslims and all other religions except fringe scholars who, when they make (sometimes justifiable) criticisms, are labelled, hectored and driven out of the mainstream. However the Western academics make no qualms insulting Hindus.It is this exceptional treatment that points to a specific and systemic bias that can only be due to racism. As for anti-Americanism, many of them ARE anti-American. It is all part of the liberal bias.Hkelkar 02:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Regarding your last post to my page, I do not believe that Netaji accused anyone of racism, merely stated that many who oppose India's right to self-determination (with a Leftist/Fundamentalist sympathetic bias) make such oppositions. It was not a bad faith assumption because he did not specifically accuse anyone involved in the article of racism.Hkelkar 16:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Well regarding your claims against Netaji I'll admit that his response was a bit direct. However, given the long history of racism and hate against Indians by many people, it is difficult not to jump to conclusions when an editor explicitly singles out an article about India for criticism and states general policy to justify it.Hkelkar 17:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Yes, you are correct that it is a good faith violation. I'm not excusing his statements, merely supplying context to them.

[edit] typical tactic

this is a typical tactic that people who have nothing to contribute to an article resort to. if they have nothing to add to an article, they accuse the people who disagree with them of being racist... Kennethtennyson 03:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

can you archive that whole rambling about us? it appears to have taken up another page...Kennethtennyson 03:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Not many people ramble about him, they ramble about you because you need to see the nice men in white now. Freedom skies 05:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey there buddy, I am back:

(a quote from Kenneth Tennyson Phd.)

"the sad thing is that our fellow here - freedom skies - appears to have been raised in america or britain and yet he seems more indian than american or british and along with that supports a radical view of the world that is peppered religious ideas... and along with that - he is educated! It is truly sad... if india industrializes and this hindutva movement holds sway, the world will see a flourishing of a very powerful and scary radicalized country."

Firstly, can you tell me what being American or British is? America and Britain are both made of of various immigrant and former immigrant communities from Italy, Ireland, China, Guatemala, and so forth. So, if Freedom Skies is being proud of his culture, is that evil? Secondly, you have an over negative estimation of countries outside of your clouded world. Suggestion, join the Marine Corps. That is one thing I have learned is understanding the world through travel. Thirdly, I am utterly shocked at your comment on Freedom skies being educated as being a sad thing (if not, a scary thing). Does that threaten you that Indians are educated? Please answer yes or no (no need to give a disertation or oration), thank you. Also, that statement reminds me of when the slaveowners back in the Southern part of America during the civil war used to consider Blacks getting education as a threat to their lifestyle. As a matter of fact, it was illegal for an Afro-American to go to school or even learn to read, since it was viewed as a threat to the racist slave owners. I will even go a further step to say that back then, these racists from the colonial South felt threatened that the slaves would become "a very powerful and scary radicalized community". Indrancroos 08:33, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding your previous posts, here is some food for thought. In the Marine Corps, as a Gunny Sgt. or someone in command, if you are at a bar or a party, you never show that you are drunk. If you are drunk, you do not admit it... You're basically shooting yourself in the foot by admitting that you have had a few drinks while fiddling around on wikipedia, (and in some cases, 3 cases???) learn from that pal...

[edit] stuff

Yes, I was blocked for combatting a troll on the Atal Behari Vajpayee & Kancha Ilaiah articles.Bakaman Bakatalk 03:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kalaripayattu

Do you actually have a copy of Kalarippayat by D.H. Luijendijk?

Sorry, unfortunatly I dont have that one - I made the reading list from various books ive come across online. Vastu 22:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] question

Is there a good reason to explain why you were swearing [4]?Bakaman Bakatalk 01:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Zen Collaboration of the Month

Thought you might be interested in this new collaboration. Regards. --MichaelMaggs 16:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] apologies

sorry about not supplying the diffs; been a bit busy lately... also, i have to read on how to supply them. Kennethtennyson 19:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

i believe that the ban was discussed by zarilli in one of his books... i think that you and i spoke of this years ago but i wasn't able to supply the reference at the time. the 9th century designation is related to the legend of parasuma in religious texts. zarilli speaks of this also. Kennethtennyson 19:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
isn't it amazing that you and I have been a part of wikipedia for at least 3 years? time really flies. Kennethtennyson 20:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
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